On Our Best Behavior
On Our Best Behavior is a heartwarming podcast where Mom, Kelli and 16-year-old son, Maccoy delve into the complexities of school, life's struggles, highs and lows, and various challenges. With a blend of humor and sincerity, they navigate through these topics while sharing their own experiences and insights. Their conversations are not only relatable but also enlightening, offering listeners a fresh perspective on everyday issues. Alongside their engaging discussions, they welcome intriguing guests, adding a dynamic element to each episode. Tune in to join this duo on their journey of growth, learning, and discovery.
On Our Best Behavior
When life is noisy, the brain is louder
A melted iced chai, a perfect box of McDonald’s fries, and an e‑bike cruising a 55‑mph lane shouldn’t add up to a conversation about mental health, bioethics, and public health—but that’s where the week takes us. We start with the small irritations that punch above their weight (Starbucks misses, Instacart fails, free pie Wednesdays, and the eternal sweatshirt purge) and follow the thread into why tiny frictions say so much about control, comfort, and how we keep it together when the world won’t cooperate.
From there, we swing through pop culture—Taylor Swift’s new tracks, misheard lyrics, and why upbeat joy can be as disruptive as heartbreak—before plunging into a true crime rabbit hole that surfaces tough questions: What do we do with fractured memory, psychosis, and the limits of accountability? How do we care for people when stigma and access still lag decades behind the science? We unpack schizophrenia’s complexity, the role of genetics and environment, and why two brains with the same diagnosis can look completely different on imaging.
The second half goes deep on systems: assisted choice and autonomy with real safeguards, the perverse incentives that rush primary care and underpay mental health pros, and the realities of clinical trials for rare diseases—from first-in-human phases to the impossible triage families face when hope is scarce. We talk consent, equity, and how to expand research without exploiting desperation. Along the way, we keep it candid, a little unhinged, and always grounded in real life: better guardrails for gun access, safer streets, and policies that treat neighborhoods like patients.
If you’re into honest talk that connects everyday chaos to the bigger picture—mental health, genetics, ethics, and the practical fixes that make life livable—you’ll feel at home here. Hit play, send this to a friend who loves both fries and philosophy, and tell us: what would you change first? Subscribe, rate, and leave a review to help more curious minds find the show.
Welcome back to Honor Bus Behavior, the podcast where we try to be in to be insane. Where we try to be sane in a world that's absolutely not.
SPEAKER_00:Keyword try, but daily chaos, mental health check-ins, and the news cycle, it's basically a full-time job just to keep it together.
SPEAKER_01:And we are not qualified for that job. Today we're going to be talking about all the wild things that happen in everyday life. The good, the bad, and the did that just really happen moments.
SPEAKER_00:Plus a little bit of mental health talk, a dash of politics, but don't panic. And our usual round of what we're watching, reading, and listening to.
SPEAKER_01:Basically, if it's a part of our week, it's fair game. So buckle up, grab your coffee, and let's get on our best behavior.
SPEAKER_00:Whoop whoop. Coffee, beer, wine.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Any of the above. Remember my shirt I had made when we went on vacation and it said coffee, cocktails, and cannabis.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, your sister made that. You made that. We were gonna do chotskis, tchotkis. What was the other word? I don't know, but you had never heard the word tchotchki before.
SPEAKER_01:And so and it was funny because I was somewhere not that long ago and somebody was trying to explain a tchotchki to me, and I go, Oh, do you mean tchotchkis?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, tchotchki. Yeah, yeah, tchotchkis. Yeah, a tchotki. Hello.
SPEAKER_01:That was something that I didn't think I'd ever need in my life, and it now worked in my future.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and now you can never not think about it when you walk into an antique store and you're like, there's a tchotchki. I think about it all the time. Oh, my grandma had them. She had the cheapest, crappiest tchotchkis.
SPEAKER_01:You didn't keep any of them when she died?
SPEAKER_00:Maybe. Do you have any? I don't I don't think so. Maybe my sisters did. My aunt or uncle might have, but no, we threw most of it away because it was cheap um like Avon stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, people resell that.
SPEAKER_00:And she never cleaned. I mean, this is the woman. It was so dusty.
SPEAKER_01:You just have to put it in the dishwasher or in the sink.
SPEAKER_00:I think it would have melted or something. No, they but you know, who knows? I mean, this is also the woman that was diabetic and knew she couldn't eat candy and things like that. But then would when we when we moved her out of her apartment, found really old nutty bars shoved in between her bathroom towels. Because she would hide them so my mom wouldn't see them, and then she would forget about them. So if you want to know what a nutty bar looks like five years later, shoved into a bathroom towel.
SPEAKER_01:You probably never eat one again.
SPEAKER_00:I don't think I well, I have had one. A lot of people like nutty buddies. Loved nutty bars, so I probably have had one or two, but yeah, that ruined it for me.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, well, I have to tell you a few things about that, Judgy McJudgerson. Number one, that's why they make medicine. Yep. Number two, let's see how good you stay out of the sweets when you're diabetic. And then we'll go from there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's true. I mean, I'm more of a salty I'll it's the carbs. I'll have a hard time if I become diabetic, like limiting my bread and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:You know, my mom was diabetic, and when she went to like carb counting class, I was like, you can't eat that. You she's like, Yes, I can. I can have this many carbs for whatever, whatever, whatever. And I was shocked how much carbohydrates you actually could have. It's confusing. And when she didn't care anymore, she just only ate junk food, but that's all she ate, and she didn't eat much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, we were trying to keep this woman alive, but she So I mean, yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, you might not survive doing it that way, but I mean it's hard to take treats away from somebody who loves them.
SPEAKER_00:We would go to Baker Square every Wednesday for free pie Wednesday. So she got a slice of pie every Wednesday.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes I want to be that lady who's like, okay, on Monday night we're going here for dinner because it's buy one, get one free. On Tuesday, we're going here because it's 50 cent tacos.
SPEAKER_00:Where's the deal?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I've like, sometimes I'll try to like line them up, but then I'm too lazy and I don't follow through with that. But then I'm like, do I really want to put on a bra to go out in public and do this? No. Well, it's winter soon. So sweatshirt season. Yeah, sweatshirt season. No one can tell if you have one or not.
SPEAKER_00:I have recently realized I had a lot of sweatshirts last year. I had over 30. Oh, yeah, you pretended. Didn't you do a purge? I did.
SPEAKER_01:And because then you're like, I don't need any more clothes. I just got rid of a bunch of clothes, and I'm like, no, but it's new.
SPEAKER_00:I know. Trust me, I know. I I don't want to admit I'm thinking I'm back up to like 35 sweatshirts. I have more my whole entire closet is all my hoodies.
SPEAKER_01:See, yeah. Well, and sweatshirts, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like zip between zip-ups, hoodies, crew necks. Yeah, it's all casual. Nothing fancy in that closet. Nope. My top rack in my closet is all casual. And I'm like, that thing is gonna bust down.
SPEAKER_01:In this room, I used to have like a rack, and I had all my hoodies hanging up here. Yep. And me and Bigfoot, me and Bigfoot Bob were doing a podcast, and you could see like I had that like behind me, and he's like, What is all that? I'm like, oh, that's just my hoodies. Just my hoodies. That's it. Welcome to the Midwest. Good thing I have a closet here and a closet there and a closet in the hallway.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the Midwest. I know.
SPEAKER_01:But I I yeah, I just I love sweatshirts. They make such cute ones. I wore my fuckadoodle-doo shirt last weekend and I got so many likes.
SPEAKER_00:People like so many people were like, Did you go to the Inoke and um Vintage Fest?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Vintage Fest. Vintage Fest, yep.
SPEAKER_00:How was that?
SPEAKER_01:So fucking busy. It so fucking hot.
SPEAKER_00:Through it. Yeah. And I where did I go? I don't know remember where I went Saturday morning, but I oh I went to Starbucks and I sat in the drive-thru for 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_01:There was a day I went there on a but it was a Sunday and it was so busy.
SPEAKER_00:This was at like 11:30. Yeah. I was like, what the hell is going on?
SPEAKER_01:Well it was Sunday. So I'm like, why aren't you motherfuckers at church?
SPEAKER_00:You should be. I'm not, but you should be. And it was 45 minutes, and the person in front of me was Were you through the drive-thru? Yeah. And so my drink was melted. I'm like, I need to, but I was dressed in my pajamas. So it's not like I wanted to go in.
SPEAKER_01:I leave my sunglasses on a lot, and I'll just go in there and like don't look at me. I was wearing a like Winnie the Pooh t-shirt. And it was like the Were you wearing your matching?
SPEAKER_00:It was it was a Winnie the Pooh sleeping ensemble. And like you could probably see my nipples through the shirt. So I was like, should not go in public like this, but sometimes I'll just do the and it was hot as hell. And so I took the back roads to get home, and I was like, what the hell's going on in downtown? And no, I had no idea. It looked insane. The amount of food trucks and everything.
SPEAKER_01:You think the Coon Rapids Starbucks is closer for you than the Champlain one?
SPEAKER_00:Neither of those. I have to go to the Riverdale one by Target if I want to do pickup, because neither of the one in Champlain.
SPEAKER_01:They shut it off a lot when it's busy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they shut off pickup. And so the ri the one right by Target and five guys in Wells Fargo was didn't have that issue. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna go here. I'll drive the extra two minutes out of the way.
SPEAKER_01:That's the one I always go to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It was insanely long. Well, I got there and it the the drive-thru line was so long. So I'm like, I'm just gonna go in. It's always faster. And then I got in there and it was packed. Yeah. And then I'm like, I'm just gonna do a mobile order because I don't have to talk to anybody. Yep. And as I was on the thing and I was putting in my order and I heard them say, so and so said we can shut down online ordering because we're so far behind.
SPEAKER_00:And I was like, motherfuckers, now I gotta get in that line. I know. I am never like, I want to go to Starbucks. It's it's very rare and I was so mad. I always get my one of my favorite drinks, is a dirty ice chai latte. You like it dirty? I do. I couldn't help it. They didn't put my shots of espresso in my iced chai latte. I was like, I need this caffeine. Did you go back in there? No, I didn't realize it until I got home. I had a couple I had a couple sips, and I'm like, this doesn't taste like there's any coffee in it. There's like no espresso in here, and like I did two or three shots of espresso. And you paid for it, and I paid for it, and I'm like, what? And I looked at the color, I was like, yeah, this is just their concentrate. Like I was I was pissed.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, no, this is not cool. I'm that person, and food is so expensive. Like Starbucks, look, if I'm gonna splurge on a seven, eight dollar coffee, because when I go there, I'm gonna get the biggest one. Yep, I always get a venti. And like you can't fuck that up. No. I was on like a kick for a while where I would go there and I would get like just regular coffee and I would be like, I want this much cream and this much sugar. They would never fucking stir the sugar. Oh. So then, right, I want to drink it on my way to wherever I'm going. And yeah, and it is just and then right, it's so sweet at the bottom. Yeah. So then I would then you can't even put any comments in on the Starbucks thing. Like, you can't. I wanted to be like, please stir the sugar and cream. Yeah. And I'm being real big, Karen, right now. I know it, but don't I if you just don't fuck with my fast food.
SPEAKER_00:You know who does stir their coffee? Who? McDonald's. Okay, good to know. So it's quite cheaper. It is, it is, and especially on the app and I feel like their coffee just tastes like burnt. See, I don't burnt. I don't mind burnt. But I also love McDonald's. It's so bad. Um, but yeah, they stir their coffee. It reminds I did Instacart for some groceries the other day. I always order through. If I do, there's certain things at Cub that I like to get, and I go to the cub in Champlain and I always do Instacart pickup or whatever. And drive up, you mean? Drive up, yeah. And I ordered frozen pizzas, salad, bags, salad, like all of these things. My order, I picked the time for it to be ready between four and five. They shopped for it at like 9 a.m. for some reason. And they're like, oh, it's early. I'm like, oh great, come pick it up anytime before five o'clock. Great. So I went on my lunch break, I was working from home, went and got it. All of my frozen stuff was in the fridge. So my pizzas were defrosted already. And I was like, can I refreeze these? It's processed. So like I think I can, but still everything's processed. Like that pissed me off. My salad, my bag salad, lettuce was brown, completely brown, and it wasn't even supposed to expire till the 15th. Did you bring that shit back? I complained on Instacart, sent pictures. Why do you use Instacart? You gotta use Target pickup. I do for other things, but I don't like Target's produce. And I don't like Target's bag salad.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I thought you were picking all this stuff up at Target.
SPEAKER_00:No, it was Cub. Oh, at Cub. My bad. I didn't do that part. No, no, no. Sorry. Yeah, it was Target. I thought I just assumed. You know, I I like Cub's produce. I don't like Target's produce. It never lasts long. Um, but I was pissed. So I'm waiting for Instacart to get back to me because I'm like a safety complaint.
SPEAKER_01:Those people, number one, right, they work on tips. And number two, like, would you but would you buy this for yourself? No. No one no one else is gonna eat that.
SPEAKER_00:I had plenty of frozen things that you could have put them in a separate bag and put them in the freezer. I've ordered from inst through Instacart from that cub multiple times over the years. Never had this issue before.
SPEAKER_01:Well, at least it's just a one-time thing then.
SPEAKER_00:Thankfully, but I was like, I'm kind of being dramatic, but can I eat these pizzas? Yes, I can, but I'm still pissed about it. And I was being dramatic in that I mean my complaint, I was like, this is a safety issue, and blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, yeah, people died from romaine lettuce. I there's E. coli in it, and I was like, my whole bag, I have a picture of it, my whole bag was brown lettuce. And when there's like liquid in there, so gross. And the fact that it didn't expire until the 14th, and this was on the 7th.
SPEAKER_01:That's really weird. It was so gross. I don't have anything to say. All I'm saying is, like, my biggest thing is if I order fast food and I get home and it is not what I want, like I am, yeah, I am going off the rails because I'm starving. I already spent too much money. I don't want to fucking come back up there so you can make it right. Oh, yeah. It drives me nuts. I remember one time I went to like Wendy's because that's what Mackie wanted. And he was little, like where he would still get kids' meals, and I got all the way home, and all the food was there except for Mackie's fucking kid meal. Oh, and then like I called them and I'm like, I just want you to know. Don't forget the kid, dude. Only reason I went to your establishment is because that's what my child wanted, and now my child still doesn't have dinner, and now I have to go get him something else because I sure as hell ain't coming back there.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I told you about the bug in my McDonald's fries. Well, you still love it, so I do. I do. I still haven't used my friends. I understand like bugs and hairs and it's gross, but and they redeemed that they it was redemption. It was just I was grossed out for a while, but trust me, I've had McDonald's fries since then. And there's no bugs.
SPEAKER_01:The bug is probably more healthy for you than those fries.
SPEAKER_00:Probably, and I don't care. I don't care. There is nothing like so. That's what that was the other thing. So I stopped at McDonald's because I was like, I'm kinda hungry. I'm gonna get a little snack. You know, I'm on this whole like eating less journey and stuff. So I McDonald's has in their app get a free any size fry with the purchase of a soft drink. Motherfucker. And so I always I tend to do that, and so I get like a medium fry and a drink for two bucks. Their app is fire, yeah. They have a lot of good deals, they have a lot of good deals. Um, and so I was like, why did I even go to Starbucks? Because McDonald's satisfied me way more than Starbucks. Like, I threw it out, I was so ticked off. And I'm like, this is how I know I am like low class, kind of trashy in my like palettes because in my palette of food. Because I'm like, those McDonald's French rice and that sprite satisfied me way more than anything I bought from Starbucks. Their Sprite is so good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it's real spicy. So tell me what happened. That what did you see today that you're gonna like?
SPEAKER_00:I can't tell you I was I when I I left work and I was like, I'm gonna go to Perfect Ten. I go to Perfect 10 twice a year. Oh, twice a year. Springtime and fall time to clean out my car. Because they do it. They do a really good job. It's not cheap, but I was like, okay, I'm I'm gonna do it. It's it's time.
SPEAKER_01:How much did it cost?
SPEAKER_00:It was with the coupon for the rainbow 36.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:So, which that's the level below the highest, before the a level below the perfect 10.
SPEAKER_01:There's another one. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I'm on old highway 10, coming off of 30 off, off of 35, and on my way home, and the traffic is just slow. And I'm like, it's three o'clock in the afternoon. Like, I left work early today. I was like, why is the traffic so slow? People are weaving in and out, and they're like, I'm like, this is ridiculous. I see a guy on an electric bike driving in the right lane trying to keep up with traffic. We were at a stoplight, and I'm like, is this a motorcycle, like a little motorcycle, or is it an electric bike? All of a sudden, I see the fuckers start pedaling when the light turns green, and I was like, oh, hell no, you asshole need to be on the shoulder.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna say, there's a shoulder.
SPEAKER_00:This is fucking ridiculous. Like I was over by Grandpa Joe's candy shop. Oh, I love that place. I love that place. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? This is ridiculous. So then I'm driving down, and right before the stoplight to turn, take a right to um perfect 10, I see a cop. And he was down looking down at his phone or something. I was like, oh, he's not paying attention. All of a sudden, then I turn the corner and then I'm in line and I turn right and I see the guy got pulled over by the cop. I was like, thank God. Thank you. Oh my god. I was like, this has gotta be a motorcycle. No, he was pedaling. Who do you think you are on a highway pedaling your bike to get up to 40 miles an hour? Some of them go 4555. But they're not street legal like that.
SPEAKER_01:They're not. So I'm glad the cop took care of his name.
SPEAKER_00:You have to give the guy credit. He was wearing a helmet. Okay. You know what I mean? That is good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I do know how you feel about bike.
SPEAKER_00:But so I appreciate that, but whole I was like, you son of a bitch. Who the fuck do you think you are? And I think this guy was like dumbfounded. I'm sitting there like staring the whole time. I get out of my car and I'm standing at the window in perfect 10, staring there, not watching for my car, but staring at this guy, like giving him the stare down. I was like, you can't see me, but you know, but I was like, you fucking son of a bitch. That just pissed me off.
SPEAKER_01:Gosh. Listening to us talk, I feel like a bunch of Karen's and I don't like it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I feel like everybody would agree with me on that. Yeah. You have an elect your son has an electric bike. You're very familiar with them. They can go really fast, but they're not safe to be driven on a highway where people are going 55, 60 miles an hour. No. Like you can't even keep up with traffic.
SPEAKER_01:And there's like even frontage roads and whatnot that they could have taken. There's it's not like there's no other option.
SPEAKER_00:There's back roads in that whole area. Yeah. Yeah. Like you could have. And yeah, he just was like thinking he's like cruising and like, I've been on motorcycles. Bro, you are not on a motorcycle. Knock it off. No. So what did you do last weekend? What did I do last weekend?
SPEAKER_01:Last weekend I was like, I at the end of the weekend, I'm like, you know, this is what I do. I'm like, oh, I should text Emily and see what she did this weekend because I haven't heard from her. And uh and then I never do.
SPEAKER_00:No, I didn't do much because I wasn't feeling the greatest. Like Friday I woke up just feeling like I was getting a cold, like you and Maggie both had, and so I worked from home Wednesday.
SPEAKER_01:Wendy's got it this week.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I didn't have a voice. I think yesterday was the first day that my voice came back. I didn't have a voice. Um, I was supposed to go down to Richfield and hang out with Laura and baby Robert, but I'm not a baby anymore. No, no, but he's he's two, so you know, he's always be a baby in my heart. Um, but I I didn't feel good. And then Saturday I was supposed to go down to my co-workers in Rochester to deliver some stuff for her, and I canceled on that because I was like, I don't feel good. But then I'm all the way to Rochester? That's where she lives. Yeah, she's remote, and we had to kick her out of her space, so we had to give her her desk stuff back. Um and then Saturday night, Sam and I went to the Taylor Swift movie.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you did? I was wondering if I want to know about it.
SPEAKER_00:It was good. Like, we need to talk about Life of a Showgirl.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and then Sunday I read all day. So if we want to get into what I'm reading or what I was watching, whatever one you want to get into, but Sunday was also listening to. And listening to. So let's start with that. Life of a showgirl.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So she said, Hey, thank you for the wonderful book.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'm like, I'm not 100% there yet, but I know I'm not either. Um, so Sam asked me a long time ago if I wanted to go, and I was like, I have no idea what to expect, sure, like whatever. And so we went, and so it was the making of the Fate of Ophelia music video. Okay. And then she would do introductions about each song and like what they're about, what may inspired her to write them, and then it would be the lyric video. So it was like an hour and a half long. And when she talked about wood, she gave like a two-word explanation, and that was it. Like what was it? I can't remember Wood. She was just like, Yep, that's it. Like, just had no other words. I can't remember what she said, but we were all just laughing.
SPEAKER_01:Did she did you see her talk about it on Jimmy Fallon? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. It was it was hilarious. Did you see Travis talking about it on New Heights? Because Jason probably was pretending like it's about a tree. Yeah. Yeah, he was like playing dumb. And then Jason's like, Did you get a little cocky?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then he's like, I would describe mine as an oriental bush. So how did you end up with a redwood?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I, yeah, so it was it I was iffy about the album when I first listened to it on Friday.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I loved it right away because it was all upbeat.
SPEAKER_00:I do like that it's upbeat. And my boss and I were talking about this steak. She's a Swifty too.
SPEAKER_01:Tortured Poets was just too slow. I mean, I feel like there's a handful of songs on it where I'm like, oh, I really like this, but most of them, like, if they're on in the background, that's fine. But I'm never like, oh, I want to hear this song.
SPEAKER_00:There are a lot of Swifties that are pissed that it's upbeat because Taylor's never really put it on. Because she's been heartbroken her whole life. Correct. They yeah, they've never had an album where she's literally happy and publicly so in love and all of these things. I think it's great. I think it's amazing. It's not my favorite album of hers, but in my head, nothing can beat Reputation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I was like, what's your favorite?
SPEAKER_00:Reputation. And then the original, the OG Taylor Swift album, because that was something I would in my 1994 Saturn with the pop-up headlights in my$200 CD player that I had specially customized. And that was a lot of money back then. A lot of money back then. Um and that CD was what I listened to all the time. It was the OG where it was like crazy, that's fine. I'll tell mine you're gay, not the bleeped-out version. And then the CD got stuck in my CD player. So I don't have it anymore.
SPEAKER_01:You played it so much, it just lives there.
SPEAKER_00:No, my alternator died, and then when they fixed it, they couldn't get the CD out. So it was really sad. But so those are my two OGs. I I like that it's upbeat. There's a lot of songs on there that I really like. I have Opal in my head at all times today.
SPEAKER_01:Like it's been in my You were dancing through the lightning strike.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's in my head at all times.
SPEAKER_01:Tell me the songs that you don't love. Okay, because I love most of them. So tell me the ones that you're like not in love with.
SPEAKER_00:I gotta full up pull up the list.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so the two that I don't love is father figure and eldest daughter.
SPEAKER_00:See, and for me, it would be honey. Okay. I don't love that one. Okay. Um I do I like father figure because she it's after George Michaels. So she did talk about that. Yes. Well, the George Michael father figure song.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know, but that's the George Michael.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's the George Michael. So she asks permission from his family first, like, can can I use this and stuff like that. So I like that. It's catchy.
SPEAKER_01:Um I guess I need to listen to that George Michaels song.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You'll what you'll when you listen to it, you'll it'll kind of click a little bit. Okay. Um Ruin the Friendship is so sad. It makes me want to cry.
SPEAKER_01:And everyone was speculating that that was gonna be about Blake Lively, and it's a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's about Abigail's ex-boyfriend who died. Like, no. Yeah, yeah. Um, but apparently who's Abigail? Her best friend from high school. Like they're still best friends. She's got like gorgeous long red hair, like, so she's been mentioned in a bunch of her songs over the years and stuff, but she like just kind of lives her life, but is like known as Taylor Swift's best friend. Um, and then actually romantic is apparently about Charlie XCX. I love that song. Fell into that rabbit hole. And Sam, I was like, I don't know, but Sam's like, listen to because I had only listened to albums. I love it.
SPEAKER_01:What I love about it is because like that's how I love my that's how I live my life. Like that's what Sam said to you. If you hate me, you're giving me attention. That's what she said. If you're talking shit about me, you're giving me attention.
SPEAKER_00:She goes, I would respond to you in the same exact way. And I was like, you're right. Like, you're right. Like, I guess when I first listened to it, I did not listen to the lyrics in depth. It wasn't until I saw the movie, quote unquote, that I really was able to read the lyrics and and things like that. And so the way that you should listen to the non-explicit version because when they talk about, you know, wood and like, you know, how she's like, um, my thighs open or something like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you had the keys to my thigh. Yeah, they didn't say that in the movie.
SPEAKER_00:No. No.
SPEAKER_01:I'm surprised they didn't. No. I don't want she was like, you had the keys to open my thigh or something like that. I'm like, whoa, girl. Little kids were there.
SPEAKER_00:So they did the non-explitive version. You know me? I'm like, give me the dirty shit. Yeah, I want to dirty. I like it dirty. I like it dirty. So, but yes, I've been listening to that a lot. I I I I'm in I it's a lot of things are in my head. Like now, father figure is in my head because you talked about it. So a lot of it's catchy. People are mad because she's in love, and you know, her lyricist, like, she's not as creative in her lyrics as she has been in the past.
SPEAKER_01:I still think she is. I do too, but yeah, I can like something she'll say, and I'll be like, why didn't I think of that? I know. You know, I know.
SPEAKER_00:And then the um fate of Ophelia is based off of Hamlet. Ophelia and Hamlet. You know me in Shakespeare. Yeah. Um, and so I was like, that is such a good like comparison.
SPEAKER_01:I love Elizabeth Taylor. Oh, yeah, that's such a good song. I thought that when I heard the first time I heard it, you know, I always hear lyrics wrong, and I thought that she was saying um a little bit Taylor.
SPEAKER_00:Even the song is Elizabeth Taylor.
SPEAKER_01:But I thought she was saying a little bit Taylor, and I was like, oh yeah, what's this about? Everyone, you know, try to be a little like Taylor. Like, yeah, we all want to be that, but then that wasn't.
SPEAKER_00:Have you have you heard or know anything about Elizabeth Taylor and the amount of husbands that she's had?
SPEAKER_01:No, and I haven't even like honestly don't know all the words. I am not a diehard Swifty. Like, I it will come to me. I haven't sat down and looked at the lyrics or anything like that. I don't even know what this song is about.
SPEAKER_00:It's based off of like Elizabeth Taylor's life a little bit in. She's still alive. No. Oh, she's dead? Yeah. Okay. Elizabeth Taylor died. And then Eliza Manelli was her daughter. Liza Minnelli's dead too. She is. Liza Minnelli had took after her mother, which nine engagements and husbands and this. I'm like, I can't even nail one down.
SPEAKER_01:So is she rich from her husband's money or was she rich from her own self?
SPEAKER_00:She was self-made.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So then good for her if she wants to get married ten times. I mean, they both, yeah, they were. I hope they had a lot of prenups. Even Liza was more self-made than based off of her mom. So they're really a fascinating family to kind of dive into. Yeah. So okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So that was the watching and listening. Are you watching any other shows?
SPEAKER_00:Sports because the cubs are in the playoffs. Um, they start, they play at eight tonight. So you gotta get home. Yeah, I got I mean, eight oh five is one first pitch. Wild start tonight. So hockey season has officially started.
SPEAKER_01:I thought you when you said the cubs were in the playoffs, I always think the cubs are the bears. And I'm like, it's not football playoff time yet. No, no, it's that weird time of the year when it's like everything is happening at the same time. Where it's baseball, hockey, and football. And I love when it's all home games on the same day. That's fine.
SPEAKER_00:I know. I was like, what am I gonna do? The wild and the cubs are playing at the same time tonight. Whoa. We should have gone to B-dubs. Didn't even think about that. Didn't even think about that. I don't want to go because the Cubs are probably gonna lose and then they're gonna be eliminated because their pitching has been terrible. Um, so that's I've just been sports this time of year. It's always major sports for me. I finished the Ed Gean monster. Yes. I've been watching a lot of Charlie Hunnam interviews because he plays Ed Gean. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I've been kind of diving into that. So we are also watching Sons of Anarchy, like just like re-watching it.
SPEAKER_00:I've never watched it.
SPEAKER_01:He's so much like that. He's so he's so like right bad boy sexy in Sons of Anarchy. Yeah, he is a fucking whack job, just like he's supposed to be. So he did a good job. Ed Gean. He did a good job. Kind of like Zach Effron with fucked up. Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah, it is so fucked up. Like the way he talks, and like he has one eye that's kind of squinty and one that's kind of big, and he just and you know Ed Gean was like a cross dresser, so then he is like wearing a lot of times, like getting dressed up in lingerie and he said he spent a lot of time in Wisconsin to like try and learn that accent and just yeah, he's not even American, is he?
SPEAKER_00:No, I think he's British, yeah. Um, and so he spent a lot of time in Wisconsin just learning about things, trying to develop the mannerisms and things like that. And like, well, you know, Wisconsin's a difficult one to nail down. It's about as crazy as it gets. You just gotta st you I read something, and I don't know if this is true or not. But Wisconsin, Wisconsinites are not allowed in global drinking contests because they're guaranteed to win. No, I've never heard that, but I don't know if it's true or not, but I was like Against Germans? Apparently so. But also, like Wisconsinites are you know allow people under 21 to drink in a bar if they're with their parents. So like right now they do in London too. You can be 16. You know, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_01:And Germany too. You don't I don't even think you have to be with an adult. So globally, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Nationally, I believe for sure.
SPEAKER_00:For sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so okay, so the the hard thing for me with Monster is I didn't really know. I knew Ed Gean like dug people up and cut them up and made skin sooner. And then I didn't know so many things were inspired by him. Psycho. You were saying, yeah. Uh Psycho was um Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lamb.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Text a chainsaw mascot, which I had already said. Yep. Charlie Manson. What? Yeah. And then there were some other people that they like mentioned and that were inspired by him that I didn't know. I had to like look them up to see like what were they, what were they doing. But did you do you ever have ever heard of this guy? Uh I don't remember what his name. Was Jerry something. Jerry Brudos. He killed like four women, but he was also like very uh he had a shoe fetish. And so he would kill women, he would cut off their feet, he would steal their high heels, and then he would save the shoe and jizz in it until it was full. Uh-uh. Uh-huh. Uh-uh. I never heard about that this guy. Oh, because at first I thought he was like John Wayne Gacy. Yeah. And I'm like, no, that's not him. And I'm like, who is this? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:There was no John Wayne Gacy in this. But I know I'm like, who's this shoe jizzer? Oh. He's like, do you know how much you have to jizz in a shoe to fill it up? Like, no, I've never thought about that in my mind.
SPEAKER_00:I never thought about it, but I mean. Gross.
SPEAKER_01:And then it's gotta like start to like, right? Turn into like gelatin.
SPEAKER_00:I mean I have no idea. I legit have zero idea what that would look like or turn into. I just wow.
SPEAKER_01:So then, like, okay, so then so Edgeen, right? He's true a true schizophrenic. Okay. So when he gets caught with with what he's doing and he gets whatever goes to trial. Yep. If he I don't even know if he made it to trial. But he l legitimately has no recollection of what he did. He knows he dug up dead bodies. And he knew that he liked to sew whatever. But in his mind, he wasn't doing anything wrong, right? Because they're already dead. But he has no recollection of killing people. Really? And he does like a lie detector test. This is just in the show, right? So I don't know what parts are real and what are like whatever exaggerated. But they have him do a lie detector test, and they're like, okay, write down a number one through ten and then cover it up. And then the guy's like, I'm gonna ask you some questions, and every time I want you to say no, because right, they want to see it on the lie detector.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:And so his number is eight.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And so he's like, the guy's like ten. He's like, no, nine, no, eight, no. And the lie detector thing is like right. So then they're like, did you kill whatever, whatever? Did you do this? Did you do that? And he's like, no, I don't reckon I did. And the thing is just really like he's telling the truth. Oh my god. And so he goes like what you know, he ends up in like a mental a mental institution. Uh-huh. And everyone there loves him. He's so nice. He gets on meds. So, like, by the end of the show, he's never normal. He's always like a little slow. He's more you like him. You feel bad for him.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:So then, like, right, that puts me down a whole schizophrenic rabbit hole.
SPEAKER_00:And that's what you're reading.
SPEAKER_01:So, while I'm reading this book is about depression that I'm reading.
SPEAKER_00:Still, I mean, it puts you down a whole rabbit hole of mental health in general.
SPEAKER_01:It's so interesting to me. And I am gonna admit, like, I'm scared of like working in mental health or any of that because I the small amount of mental health that I do see scares me. Um, because those people are just it's not their fault, but they're just not like well managed, I feel like taken care of. And I do feel like we were kind of talking about this, and I know I talk about this a lot, but it just really fascinates me that what the brain can do, how many people are disregarded, how many lack of resources there are. So I'm reading many this book right now that says I want it's called I Wanna Die, Please Fix Me. Yep. And and it goes through about how if you do seriously have a problem, and even if it's like, I'm not saying that depression isn't severe, but it's probably one of the lesser severe unless you have it, you know, chronic extreme major. Uh, but people are afraid to say anything because they don't want to be judged. It is there's such a stigma upon mental health, and it's gotten better. You know, there was times where I was doing some research on some of these schizophrenic people after I watched Ed Geen, and so many people, like in the 50s, were too ashamed to do anything, to bring them in. They just pretended like everything was fine.
SPEAKER_00:And that's where the baby boomers learned it, and that's where the baby boomers were trying when they're raising us, like in my own experience, it was very much you're fine. Adderall is a placebo, ADHD isn't real. Meds are bullshit, meds are crap, like so. It was and you need counseling, I'll give you some counseling. Exactly. And so it's gotten a lot better because people are now being more vocal of like, no, I'm fucked up, I'm not normal, something's not right, I'm not pushing this under the rug. I, you know, all of these things, and it's very interesting to see where we've come, but still we're so far away from what we could be. And like I work with neurologists, right? I work with the brain, and what we know about the about the brain right now is a fraction of what we really could know, and a lot of it is mental health and things like that. Like the brain is so complex. There's been a lot of research done in about the brain, but it's still we're nowhere near where we need to be in any way, shape, or form of a lot of aspects of the brain because there's so many different variants within it.
SPEAKER_01:There is, and they were saying that like with schizophrenia with schizophrenia and even depression, like they can MRI the brain or CT, whatever they however they image the brain. Yep. And you can have two people with the exact same diagnosis and it looks completely different.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:So they it's almost like they're still at square one.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, basically, yeah. And it's there's I think there's a lot of genetic components that we still haven't figured out. Um, you know, we've come a long way with that. Which that makes a lot of sense to me.
SPEAKER_01:Genetics with if it's in your family or the microdeletions and and all that. I totally get that. I almost wish, I understand, like it's not um I can't think of the right word. Feasible a lot of things. It's not affordable, but everyone should like get a genetic test at birth, correct?
SPEAKER_00:I think, just so you kind of know, like I mean there are what your blueprint is things within the newborn screening, right? But I mean, you but there's so much there's so I don't expect her to do it all.
SPEAKER_01:They're trying to do the most common things, yeah, but then that's where we run into like this rare situations where we're like, oh fuck, now what do we do?
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And you know, there are rare diseases that I'm still and that's what I work in, and I'm like, never heard of that one. It's fascinating to me. Never heard of that one, and it's like this X, Y, you know, this chromosome's multiple deletion of this, and then it's duplication of this, and da-da-da-da-da. And it's like one little thing within your development as a fetus duplicated something because your parents are both carriers of something for whatever reason, and now you are born with this rare genetic condition that will impact you for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and they somebody explained it to me really well one time or show I was watching. Like, think about like a Xerox, like a printer. Like if you print something off and then there's like a glitch or uh there's a dirty spot or whatever, and then you like reprint off of that, and then it happens like that's kind of like genetics, what happens. Yeah. Um, but here's the thing. So a lot of people who have schizophrenia, schizophrenic. I always I always want to say a lot of people who who have schizophrenic, who are schizophrenic, I don't know why that's such a hard word for me. But a lot of times it it's usually like a combination of genetics, but childhood trauma. Childhood trauma can be.
SPEAKER_00:We're talking about this last sexual abuse, stop.
SPEAKER_01:I feel so bad. Yeah, I did not have a normal childhood, but I was not sexually abused. And even any of the abuse that I did endure, like is nothing comparatively to where I ever blacked anything out. And if I did ever like go through a blackout stage, um I don't. It's never came to it. It's never resurfaced for me.
SPEAKER_00:It's so interesting. Yeah, there's there's so many different factors that that play into it. Like for me, you know, from a public health standpoint, I sit and look at it in a public health lens of where are they living? Are they food insecure? Are they, you know, living in an area that's really poor and they're exposed to more toxic chemicals? Like that too, yeah. Exposure. Exposure and where's their where where are they living and what are they actually exposed to within that? And then I think about if they're living in a shitty household, what are they exposed to chemically? Like what were they exposed to at birth?
SPEAKER_01:And you know, I well, and even just like things as simple as lead and as let alone what's in our water. Yep. You know, I mean, it's it's a lot. People, you know, there's so many people get lung cancer that we're never smokers now.
SPEAKER_00:That is coming out more and more. I strongly I I think there's there's obviously a genetic component, if I'm remembering when I worked in cancer research.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's because of all the shit, all the all the processed food that we eat, all the chemicals that we're exposed to. And I am not like a green crunchy person, but it's microwaving food, even something as stupid as that.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect example. My dad's parents, my grandpa was a smoker. He smoked from the age of like 12 up until he got told he died at like 79, and he got told maybe like nine years earlier. I think he stopped at like 70 that he was getting emphysema, and so he stopped cold turkey. But this man would smoke in the house, he would smoke my around my grandma for 50 plus years. The second he stopped smoking, my grandma developed this cough that would not go away. She went and saw hundreds of different specialists had thousands of dollars worth of tests, and they were like, withdraw from second-hand smoking. She hasn't gotten lung cancer, but that cough, it is the worst cough you've ever heard in your life. And she still to this day coughs like that. And it is mind-blowing to me that and I know if my grandpa re knew that that was the reality, he would have never, you know, put her through any of that.
SPEAKER_01:But it was the norm back then. It was the norm.
SPEAKER_00:It was the cool, you know, what everybody did. My dad was a smoker until I was like in kindergarten. Um, and was your mom ever?
SPEAKER_01:Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_00:No. My dad and I made a promise to each other. I said I would stop sucking my thumb if you stopped smoking. Oh. Um, he stopped smoking. I didn't stop like sucking my thumb. Just in front of him. Year or two later, I would like hide it in my bedroom.
SPEAKER_01:That's impressive that he could quit that easier than just like his dad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just quit cold turkey.
SPEAKER_01:I can't believe you were a thumbsucker.
SPEAKER_00:I was because Did you get warts on your thumbs? Uh-uh. No, they took my nook away at a very young age. I remember the cut up my my my nook. Cut the nipple off. Yeah, cut the nipple off, and they're like, this is enough. And I, you know, being the emotional child that I was, I still needed a soothing. So you're like, I'll show you. Left thumb. They hated. You're gonna cut this bad bitch off. Watch me. Hated it. So be it's just there's so many factors that go into play, and this is why I love what I do and I love research because you're discovering new things every day, and just understanding people's lifestyles and how that can actually impact long term. And there are things you and I have no reason to do genetic testing, right? You and I I've done like a pretty basic genetic test, and I was not a carry not a carrier for anything, but that's more of like BRCA and things like that, right?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, no. This is a you're thinking of like 23andMe, but I did like a uh clinical test. So when they came out with um Horizon, have you ever heard of Horizon? Yep. So when they came out with that, they offered us to do it for free just to like see what it looked like. And I remember I was like, Mom, guess what? I did this test and I'm perfect. And she's like, Oh fuck, that's the last thing you need in your ego.
SPEAKER_00:So, but but like now genetic testing from when that when you did that to now has changed a ton grown. And and you and I have no reason This is pre-Mackie.
SPEAKER_01:I did that test.
SPEAKER_00:You and I have no reason to do it, right? Like right now, from a medical standpoint, we have no reason that we need to do anything. Like symptomatic, correct. Okay. Um, but I'm trying to remember where I was gonna go with this. For me, I don't have children. If I were to like, I don't know if I'm a carrier of anything. That is a risk that I go into if I were to have children. Is am I a carrier? Am I you can do that test ahead. You can, but like that's expensive. Yeah, it is. Not everybody, not in insurance don't cover it, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Huge barrier.
SPEAKER_00:Huge barrier. And so, especially older, am I obviously if I were to have a child, I'm I am more prone to them having Down syndrome or something like that, um, because I'm older. And I personally don't have an issue with any of that, but that is a risk, and it's something that do you really it's something I have to take into consideration. Like I am so exposed to the rarest diseases and the craziest things that you see, and it makes me second guess like do I want to risk my life and bring in a new life, not knowing that they might have X, Y, and Z.
SPEAKER_01:It's almost selfish to have a kid the way the world is. But I mean, I did it because I'm selfish.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like for me, there's a lot of rare diseases that aren't diagnosed until after birth because the start developmental milestones start going down and then they start having seizures or whatever the case is.
SPEAKER_01:That's why I'm saying like if we could test everybody, then we would be able to just be on top of it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Stem cells, I would 100% love for us to all have you know preventative MRIs and CTs once a year or something like that. I'm always scared to know, but but I understand why it's beneficial because pancreatic cancer, you don't get diagnosed until it's stage four or ovarian cancer, like none of that stuff, like liver, like you know, anything like that. Like you don't get diagnosed until it's too late. And it's so hard to do research on things that are so far gone because and you need to catch a lot of these things earlier.
SPEAKER_01:I know, I a hundred percent agree. I also so I have a controversial opinion also about uh like mental health and this kind of stuff too. I am a big believer in if people are want to die, if people after seeking help, you know, after having resources, if people want to die, if people are addicted to drugs and can't get better or don't want to get better, or if people who are like chronically homeless with no desire to get out of that. Like I understand like bad things happen to people, we get into ruts or whatever, and and I'm not talking about that. Honestly, there are some people that are like the guy in Anoka, the black guy in Anoka, I guess he has money, but he chooses to live like that. Good for you, that's fine. It's nice, I don't care. But I'm just saying the people who, you know, for example, like I went to Minneapolis not that long ago, and I want to say it's Lake Street. Like, there's a part of Lake Street that's really nice, and there's a part of Lake Street across the bridge and it's not nice at noon. Uh-huh. Everyone is I saw some guy openly smoking something off a tinfoil. Yep. I saw people talking to themselves, uh-huh. I saw people dancing in the storefront, whatever. These people are seriously on drugs. Yeah, I was just down there last week to go visit my dad. If this is your home and you just throw your trash on the floor like that on the ground when there is a garbage, empty garbage can right there.
SPEAKER_00:Like for me, I think about what has happened in their life. Yeah, no, and I'm giving them grace on that. I'm not saying that No, yeah, they're bad, terrible people. It's yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I'm saying they should have some choices. Yep. They should be able to decide if they want to die. They should, and I think this for for like people uh that have like a life sentence in prison too. Okay. If you want to die, unless you're a pedophile, you should have to suffer. Okay. But you should have to still do like five years in prison. But a dick cut off and a fucking ass off. Yeah, get raped all put them in the rape chamber. Like good people good beh well-behaved prisoners can fuck the shit out of you if they want to. Go for it. Uh in the worst ways. Because that in my mind is like the one thing that is unforgivable. Yep. Uh, anything that you do to an innocent child like that. Um, so I think that they should have, they have to do some time, they have to suffer a little bit, but they should have the option that if they want to die, and this would just save so much money in the world, okay? They can die if they want to die. I believe in assisted suicide.
SPEAKER_00:That is one of my biggest beliefs.
SPEAKER_01:Especially like people who are chronically ill and not doing it. So many papers on it over the years. 100% believe in that. I also think that um these like people who are just super unwell, and I'm not, and I think they should really have to, I'm not saying like I'm not saying this lightly. I think they should have to undergo like a psychiatric evaluation and like a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:And what they have to do for cancer patients and patients with, you know, chronic conditions and things like that. And maybe they're gonna be able to do that. There's a lot of yeah, look there's a lot of evaluations done before they get approved.
SPEAKER_01:And this is a choice. I'm not saying this is everybody has to happen to people in the situation.
SPEAKER_00:I'm saying they should have the option of what's the can I ask you, what's the difference of that versus them just killing themselves with a gun? So like Ease of access. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And less guns on the street that shouldn't be on the street. Yep. Because we're trying to figure that out. Fair enough. Yep. But I think that there should be more mental hospitals, and I think that people that work in mental health should be paid way more than they are. Oh my god, I know. Um, I think there should even be compensation for people who want to go to school to be a psychologist, a psychiatrist.
SPEAKER_00:Because even people in practice, like people are not going into family practice anymore. There needs to be some sort of incentive in those areas because if the pool is shrinking and shrinking.
SPEAKER_01:And right, it's also insurance companies need to there needs to be some kind of revamp on that. Because let me tell you what happens is I feel bad for people in general because if they come in for a physical and they're having a mental health struggle, there's not enough time. Nope. And these providers, I've seen it in multiple organizations, are paid on how many people they see and how much they can bill them for versus giving good quality care. Correct. I'm not saying that good quality care isn't given anymore. I'm just saying it's a really hard thing to finesse.
SPEAKER_00:It's a balance, especially when you have the people up top being like, you only saw this many patients, or you were three hours behind, and so your staff's getting over time and what's going on.
SPEAKER_01:Or you didn't answer your patient had 10 concerns and you only answered nine, and now you got a bad review. Yep. Or you were five minutes late to see this patient, even though they came to their appointment 50 minutes late, you still made them wait, and now you got a bad review. And so that that's our so messed up. It's so messed up.
SPEAKER_00:Messed up, it's so financially driven, and I cannot stand that. I think it's absolutely disgusting. But I also learned today Canada's is very similar to that in in in ways of there's no money for anything, and like it it's so financially driven. And for us, it's insurance doesn't want to cover this, insurance doesn't want to cover that. You have to do this, you have to do that.
SPEAKER_01:And and also though, there's people who come to the clinic or go to the hospital ER, yep, and they go and go and go and go. And guess what? You can't turn them away. Nope. And they have there was someone on the news in Minneapolis that had like a million dollars in debt from the hospital, from clinics or the hospital or whatever healthcare system and they finally refused them when they were had a million dollars that they owed. And the person was upset and like went to the news stations and was like, I want to talk about this. And people were like, How dare they turn you away?
SPEAKER_00:Like, how well, I mean, they're losing money every time they see you, so I get if I I don't love the business side of healthcare. I have to deal with it and I hate it. It's frustrating. But it does go both ways. And you have to expect people to pay for what you get.
SPEAKER_01:It goes both ways. Nobody goes and gets their hair cut and doesn't pay for it. Nobody goes and gets their nails done and doesn't pay for it. If you go to a restaurant and you don't get to buy a car and not pay for it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I wish. Um go to a restaurant and dine and dish. No, if you dine and dash, they're gonna call the cops on you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like it it's just so why is it different in healthcare setting? So I think insurances need and the amount of money, you know, we've talked about insurance companies and how much money they make, that needs to be revamped. I think the government needs to step in on that. You know, I'm not anything of an expert on politics, but if Trump wants to do all these tariffs and do a government shutdown and um, you know, whatever, all this budget cuts that he did, take that money and take care of people. He's not there. I know. I'm not saying I'm not saying he's he is. I'm just saying. Yeah, I think like, yeah, it's great. You should look at what we're paying for and how it should be adjusted. Everybody should be doing that. Yeah. It should always, you know, I think that there's a lot of programs out there. If I have to do a yearly budget review, there needs to be other yearly budget reviews, okay? So any, you know, so so I don't know. I and I see like this, right? The system, uh, you know, they're taking that away, a lot of that stuff away, and that's gonna be a big effect. And I don't know if that's right or wrong. I don't know the right answer for that. I have some opinions, but I definitely don't have any space to talk on that. But it's just really defeating. And I think that if we could put a lot of money and resources into mental health, that the world that would solve a lot of our gun problems. That would solve a lot of our violence. I just think that when people are like, we don't know what the answer is, especially with all these shootings, the answer is mental health because no sane person goes and does those things.
SPEAKER_00:And no sane person, like no, no one with such strong mental health issues should be near a gun.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I think in that aspect, like I there's different for me personally, I believe there needs to be some changes within access to guns. But at the end of the day, like I am like, I don't want to take anybody's guns away by any stretch of the imagination. But it should not be as easy as me walking into Walmart when I'm having a psychosis, getting a gun and going and doing whatever I want to do with it.
SPEAKER_01:I do agree. It should be uh days or like you you go, you want to buy a gun, you have to do a process, and there has to be days or weeks, maybe even a month.
SPEAKER_00:Getting in between, getting your license. So Maya turned 18. Yeah. Day before she went to the DMV to get her license renewed because her license was expiring on her 18th birthday. They're like, Nope, can't do it. Your mom has to be here, you're not 18. She was 17 in 364 days. Yeah. Like, so Nicole had to drop what she was doing to go up there. She's like, Are you kidding me? So she's getting punished for being responsible. Correct. Yeah, correct. Like, it's just stupid things like that. Like, oh, she can't renew her license the day before her 18th birthday. I never remember having to have my parents ever at the DMV with me. Only time when I got my license because they had to take me. Yeah. We're talking about, I was like, never once did my parents ever show up to the DMV with me. So that was such a weird thing. And I'm like, she can't just renew her license.
SPEAKER_01:DMV is a whole nother problem and a whole nother show. But and so my other option for these people is I know we're coming close on time, so I just want to get this out there. Yeah. Uh, science. They should be able to choose, like, sure, instead of using all these lab rats, we have all these people with really no purpose. Let's give them a purpose if they want it. There are really big ethical concerns within that. I know. I understand it's not conventional. I understand we're recording a podcast that it's an unpopular opinion. And I understand it's way out there that I say that. Yeah. But I think that we need better science, more science, whatever, whatever. And I think that would really help expedite a lot of things. And if people, if that's giving them a comfortable bed to sleep in, food to eat, no access to drugs, and they want to do that, that should be an option. Problem is problem. I'm not saying it's ethical.
SPEAKER_00:No, I know. Problem right now is there are certain standards that we have in place for consenting patients and things like that. They have to be cognitively able to fully agree to this.
SPEAKER_01:Once again, I think it should be a psyche veil or whatnot. And there has to be certain criteria. And if you meet the criteria, then you can yeah. You know, if you have no one to vouch, there's a lot of people who have no one to vouch for them. Yeah. They've like pissed everyone off and everyone's turned their back on them.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Yeah. I yeah. I I I see where you're coming from. It my you're bringing up a topic that's black and white, but then you're bringing up a topic that is in my wheelhouse of career, and so my brain is spinning of like ICHGCP guidelines, don't allow that. The FDA makes us required to do this, and we have to do this.
SPEAKER_01:And if we're saying that should be reevaluated for certain situations, certain criteria. And I'm not saying you just go sign your life away. No, no, no, no. There's definitely a process. But if somebody is interested in that and it gives them a a shelter and a and a bed and food and no access to drugs, and they're good with that and whatever happens to them, and who knows, whatever the situation is, whatever they're if they're feeling really sick from whatever study they're doing and they want some relief, then fine, give it to them because ultimately, if they die from it, like they signed up for that. I know that sounds really harsh, and that's not what I mean all of a sudden. There should be more options.
SPEAKER_00:They do now. I mean, there's there's a risk. I mean, I when I consent patients and family, you know, to studies, it's there is always a risk. You know, it's not. You could die. You you could we, you know, especially early intervention studies, early phase studies, you know, there is a whole can we will you consent to us getting the autopsy information, you know, things like that. Like it's it's a difficult conversation. It's like a three-hour conversation I have with these families, and a lot of it is based off of we don't know what we don't know. That's the risk of going into a study. And how many people think?
SPEAKER_01:Um what do you think percentage? Just like ballpark.
SPEAKER_00:It depends on the area of research. So for me, working in rare diseases, I have people lining up out of the world.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like people had signed their life away. Like, yeah, we don't have any other options.
SPEAKER_00:Let's do this, yeah. And cancer as well. Um, when I did like MS research, they were very much into it. Things like eye research, like when I was in ophthalmology for a while.
SPEAKER_01:They're like their last resort at that point. Correct.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's what a lot of it is. I think there's healthy research subjects out there of like, you know, I know Health Partners has a um genetic type res study going on where they'll run a full genetic profile. You meet with a geneticist, and they're like, oh, you might be susceptible for this, this, this, this, this. I recommend yada yada yada yada yada. Um K George Costanza. So yeah, I, you know, I've had cancer patients say no. I've had cancer patients say no. And this is I can get that because they're like done, right? They just want to like be comfortable. Yeah. Like they're like, I don't want the last resort.
SPEAKER_01:But when you're working with children in rare disease, like, right, those parents are like, we gotta do what we gotta do.
SPEAKER_00:I've had parents from all over the world contact me. Yeah, we just had a press release on a study that I'm on, and I had five emails within two hours of that press release come out to me from all over the world. I want my kid in this study. I want my kid in the study, and I'm like, uh you only have so much medicine, right? Well, no, that's not it. It's earlier phases, earlier phase studies. So there's four different phases usually within a study. Phase one is like first in human. Phase one, two is safety, efficacy, things like that. And they only require a small amount to really determine where they go from there. Where they go from there, what dosing. So phase three is generally like, okay, we've determined this is the best dose with the best results. Let's get more data. Phase four is do it. Phase four is we are on the verge of FDA approval. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:So you go through that whole process.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01:That's a wrap on Honor Best Behavior with me and Emily. Thanks for hanging out, laughing, and maybe accidentally hearing something or learning something today.
SPEAKER_00:And don't forget, next week, the legend himself returns.
SPEAKER_01:MacDog, he'll be back with his signature energy, and let's be honest, probably only three words to share.
SPEAKER_00:But they will be powerful words. Schizophrenic.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for tuning in. We love you guys, and we'll see you next week on On Our Best Behavior.
unknown:Bye.
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