As Mac and I swap tales, we find ourselves unwrapping life's intricacies, from my unexpected journey into city commissioning to his comical escapades behind the wheel. But it's not all light-hearted banter; our dialogue takes a heartfelt turn during my revealing conversation with Nick Thompson from Love is Blind Season Two, as we dissect the complexities of aligning our childhood dreams with the realities of our adult careers.
Navigating the murky waters of burnout and job loss, this episode cuts to the core of today's work culture. The personal stories Nick recounts, such as stepping away from a coveted CMO role, serve as a potent reminder of the often overlooked human element behind our career choices. Together, we examine the raw emotions that underpin the job market and the impact of reality TV fame on personal lives. Through these candid discussions, we aim to foster a deeper sense of empathy and kindness in our interactions, both online and off.
We wrap up the episode by exploring the delicate balance of friendships and the pursuit of inner peace. As we dissect the darker facets of reality TV and the rise of 'hate followers,' our call for transparency in the industry becomes a plea for compassion. We reflect on the challenges of dating and mental health in the public eye, sharing our hopes for a world where reality TV participants are treated with the understanding they deserve. Join us for an episode that's as much an introspective look at our personal journeys as it is an invitation to join the conversation on creating a kinder, more empathetic world.
As Mac and I swap tales, we find ourselves unwrapping life's intricacies, from my unexpected journey into city commissioning to his comical escapades behind the wheel. But it's not all light-hearted banter; our dialogue takes a heartfelt turn during my revealing conversation with Nick Thompson from Love is Blind Season Two, as we dissect the complexities of aligning our childhood dreams with the realities of our adult careers.
Navigating the murky waters of burnout and job loss, this episode cuts to the core of today's work culture. The personal stories Nick recounts, such as stepping away from a coveted CMO role, serve as a potent reminder of the often overlooked human element behind our career choices. Together, we examine the raw emotions that underpin the job market and the impact of reality TV fame on personal lives. Through these candid discussions, we aim to foster a deeper sense of empathy and kindness in our interactions, both online and off.
We wrap up the episode by exploring the delicate balance of friendships and the pursuit of inner peace. As we dissect the darker facets of reality TV and the rise of 'hate followers,' our call for transparency in the industry becomes a plea for compassion. We reflect on the challenges of dating and mental health in the public eye, sharing our hopes for a world where reality TV participants are treated with the understanding they deserve. Join us for an episode that's as much an introspective look at our personal journeys as it is an invitation to join the conversation on creating a kinder, more empathetic world.
Hey guys, welcome back to On Our Best Behavior. You're here with Mac and Kelly. What up Mac dog? Uh, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:You've had life easy because you've been on spring break for what feels like forever and you're off again tomorrow. You don't go back to school till Tuesday. It's Sunday. We're recording this on a Sunday night. It will release on Tuesday. So when everyone's hearing this you'll be back. You get your new school schedule, including driver's education, no which you will be ahead of the curve because we've been prepping for some time.
Speaker 1:You drove today? Yup, I did. I'm really good at it.
Speaker 2:What's new? Anything, anything to report.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, sorry to be bothering you. I'm sorry to be bothering you.
Speaker 2:Yes, you made me on, it's your fault. I'm always tired.
Speaker 1:Having anything going on really.
Speaker 2:No, just another day in the life of McCoy Yup, just getting Kerbal tunnel. Oh my God. Oh, what's new for me? Let me think I went to my first city of Anoka meeting as a commissioner, got sworn in. That was a highlight for me and I enjoyed it. I liked it. I was a little nervous, I didn't know what to expect, but yeah, I'm happy, that was good. What else happened to me this week? I don't even remember. Everything's a blur, but I did go to Emily's house on Friday night for a Taylor Swift party and that was fun. We had tacos, we had ice cream cake, we did temporary tattoos, we sang and danced along to T-Swift. Is that the one?
Speaker 1:right here yeah.
Speaker 2:I have a whole bunch of them, oh yeah. You might have seen them on my social media. I posted on my pictures.
Speaker 1:You're funny.
Speaker 2:What did I do? Oh, yesterday we went to Mall of America and we did this shoot for the moon.
Speaker 1:You wrote all the rides Did you?
Speaker 2:ride, every ride you wanted to ride yeah, more than once.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of junk. I got duck donuts. I love them.
Speaker 1:The only I think, in my personal opinion, I think they're only good warm.
Speaker 2:Well, you warm them. Did you put it back in the microwave? You just warm it up for 10 seconds.
Speaker 1:No, they're yours. That's amazing. I don't need all of them. Oh, really, I can have them. Yes, I'm having one after them.
Speaker 2:Okay, Duck donuts. I also what's that place called Rocky Chocolate Candy Factory. I got all those haystacks because I love those.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, favorite chocolate. I already got Rocky in those. They look so good, so good and I don't share those. How many did you get? Six, six in one thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what I can't hear you. Six in one thing, six in a bag, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I thought there was like 10 in there.
Speaker 2:And then what else? I feel like I got something else.
Speaker 1:Why they called haystack, it looks like, because it's coconut. It looks like dirt and hay. Yeah, because that's why it's called haystack?
Speaker 2:Oh, because it's coconut and chocolate, but it kind of looks like haystack.
Speaker 1:Oh, so like the hay looking stuff is the coconut. Yeah, oh, it looks so good, so good.
Speaker 2:You'll never know until, like I said, hey, do you want anything? And you said I'm good.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:So that was about all we did on Saturday, and then today we went and looked at guns and I really want that easy shield. That's the one I like.
Speaker 1:Easy shield.
Speaker 2:The one that Justin tells me I shouldn't get, but that's what I want Just feels right, feels right, all right. So we are switching up the agenda on the podcast today. I had a great opportunity to interview our guest today and so, yeah, we're just kind of switching the order of release out. I just feel like this is a really relevant interview, that it should come out today. So, without further ado, nick Thompson from Love is Blind, season Two. That's great to do it now oh.
Speaker 2:You're listening to another episode of Honor Best Behavior and today I have a very special guest for you. He is a mental health advocate activist, podcast host of Eyes Wide Open and probably most known for Season Two of Love is Blind. Nick Thompson, welcome to my podcast.
Speaker 3:Hi, thanks for having me on, kelly. It's great to meet you in the flesh, in the flesh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, this is. I think it counts nowadays like this is the flesh? Yeah, I think so. So I listened to your podcast, and one of the things that I got really excited about when I started listening was you often ask people what they wanna be when they grow up, and that is one of the things my favorite question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that we talk about on this podcast all the time because I do it with my son McCoy and he is in ninth grade, and so that is something that we talk about often is what are you gonna do with your life, what do you think you wanna be? And try to get ideas of what options are, Because I think that a lot of the jobs that are out there we don't even know that they're a job.
Speaker 3:It's true, you know it's funny. The whole reason that I started asking my guest that was at the beginning. I did like a lightning round to try and get to know them a little bit and one of the questions would be what do you wanna be when you grow up? And everyone started pausing and then they kinda like work in real time through what they wanted to be when they were like a young kid, to where they ended up. And it's just always always a fascinating story and that's why I ask people because there's always these like grand ideas I'm gonna be an actor, I'm gonna be this, I'm gonna be this larger than life thing and then you kinda get like funneled into the real world or capitalism, as I say, and then all of a sudden the options seem to shrink. So I think that's awesome that you do that conversation with your son and I think it'll help hopefully help him kinda see the world as a bigger place than a lot of people end up seeing it.
Speaker 2:So how did you? So? That's what I kinda wanna know about. This is my pivot is your story. What did you wanna be when you grew up and how did you navigate your path to what you have done and where you are now career-wise?
Speaker 3:Wow, well, I had a lot of twists and turns. We could probably record a whole episode on my twists and turns.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna ask you a lot about those as well, so don't think you're getting off the hook.
Speaker 3:So when I was a young, young kid, my dream was to be a WWE wrestler. From the moment I was like two years old. My dad tells stories of me Like he was laying on the floor, he was watching wrestling and I tried to jump on him off the couch at like two years old and he just barely caught me because he caught at me in his peripheral. So I actually ended up in the hospital getting stitches when I was about two years old in the back of my head because I was wrestling with my dad and I hit the corner of the wall when we were messing around and so I was everything WWE for me as a kid and ironically now it's been so fun to watch again with, like my friends. As we've gotten older. It's kind of a fun thing that we do now too. But I had always had these kind of aspirations to be larger than life, which is interesting because it wasn't ever about like me. It was always about like an idea, right. Like I wanted to create a character that was as exciting as Hulk Hogan or the ultimate warrior Like I. And then, as I got older, I still wanted to do that. I actually did a weekend wrestling camp when I was, I think, 16, my dad said, if you're gonna, if you really wanna do this, he's like I want you to try it and so signed me up. I think it was like 1200 bucks. They beat the crap out of me and I was like I don't wanna do this, it's they beat me up so bad. It was like and you, you know, you learn like the, I'm learning the basics like a body slam messed up my ankle. It was like so you know, that kind of went away. But in that time, as a teenager, I found myself wanting to be a screenwriter early teens, a screenwriter and a filmmaker, which was I was inspired by the movie Halloween when I actually watched those all with my dad, as I was getting into scary movies as a preteen and a young teen. And so I started writing full-length screenplays at like 13 years old. Like I would just, I would go home and I would write in my notebooks. We'd go on road trips or camping. I'd write the whole car ride. I just wrote, wrote, wrote and I wanted to make movies. And again, you know, the theme that I find in myself is there's always a storytelling element to it, right, and then there's always an element of creativity to it, but it's also always about an idea. Like it's never, it was never really about me, Like I wanted to have an idea that inspired someone or excited people or compelled them or got them activated.
Speaker 3:I spent some time in my later teens and as editor-in-chief of my college newspaper dabbling in journalism, which is probably a little bit of where I get my podcasting chops from.
Speaker 3:But again, you know, and what's journalism about? I was doing everything from movie reviews to investigative reports at my college that were very, let's just say, they tried to censor me and get me to self-censor, and so I always kind of have this like storytelling element to the things I wanted to do, and I never really gave up on most of those until I found marketing. And I found marketing because I was like, well, this is a practical and I had a moment in there where I was like I want to be a teacher because I want to help kids, you know, grow up, to be, you know, the adults that they can be and reach their potential. So I had moments where I was going to do that too, but it was always, for me, the storytelling element that really compelled me, and so I ended up in marketing very, very young, like 21 years old, I think. I got a job at Motorola and eventually worked in the cell phone division and was doing basically product marketing for like the razor.
Speaker 1:Do you remember?
Speaker 2:that thing I've heard of it, I do.
Speaker 3:And so it was just kind of like I got into that and then it was, like you know, bluetooth was coming out, so it was like headsets and all these really cool like tech innovations and stuff and just telling the compelling stories of like what they're doing, and so that's where I've spent my careers in marketing. Now I'm in a. I've been in marketing leadership since 2018-ish for software and that's kind of where I'm at right now. I don't know if I'll do it forever. To be honest with you, I kind of hit my goal when I started my career was I'm gonna be CMO of an organization and this was. This was Motorola inspiration. Actually, the guy who was the CMO at Motorola came up with HelloMoto. I don't know if you remember that one.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I remember like he passed away and we had this like video montage that would always play on the screens and he you know his Jeffrey Frost, he's the guy that came up with HelloMoto and I was like I'm gonna be Jeffrey Frost, like I'm gonna come up with that. You know, I'm gonna be Macho man, I'm gonna be Hulk Hogan. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna. I had a moment too, I was gonna be president. I forgot about that.
Speaker 3:I was gonna be president as well, and so all of these things and you know I do marketing now and the podcast is kind of a nice way to give my platform and give it to others who I think have an important story, give it to others who have knowledge or expertise, and it's my podcast is usually like very stream of thought, which I don't think people necessarily know this, and I've never really said this before and I've really just kind of figured this out lately. If I get curious about something, or something is kind of like triggering my mind. I'm like I gotta go find someone to talk to me about that. That's either lived something, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Live something, has expertise in it or has an interesting story surrounding it, and I just recently had, was it this? Yeah, this week's episode was with Emily Belasteros, who's a burnout coach and author of a new bestselling book, and I literally like stumbled across her book. I don't even remember how, and I've been feeling very burnt out lately and I'm prone to it, so I know when I start to get that way and it's the I can't put a sentence together, it's the I can't like remember what I'm thinking about when I walk into the room. So I know all these things that I do and so I was like God, I gotta find someone who wants to talk about that and you know, or find a book or something right, and that's how I found her. I wonder if she'd talk about it.
Speaker 3:So my podcast gets sort of just very stream of thought what am I thinking about? What am I curious about? What do I think someone has, you know, expertise on something that I want the world to know, but maybe they I'm not credible to say it, you know what I mean Like stuff, like that. So that's kind of where I get that inspiration and that relief kind of starts to fill my cup, and there was a moment to to round this out where I hit that, that CMO title, and I did it at 34 years old and it was interim CMO but my company at the time, which I loved working there, they wanted, they wanted me to like legitimately compete for the role and I did it for like four or five months and I realized like I don't want this and that was like a huge moment for me to be like I've been working so hard and I put my career first very, very early on.
Speaker 3:I have been working so hard to get this and now I'm here and I don't want it. So that was kind of a big moment for me and I kind of went back into product marketing, which is where my you know, my, my storytelling is best utilized and I was like you know what? I'm just going to chill here in the product marketing space, be a leader, get my hands dirty when I can and see what, what the world sends me next.
Speaker 2:I loved. I listened to your burnout episode and I what I loved about isn't it good? It was good, what I loved. So there's a part like I really loved it, but then a big part of it made me so sad because I feel burned out. No-transcript, everybody feels burned out. That's what's wrong with the world, like something's gotta give. And so it's nice to know like you feel validated and you feel like you're not alone. But then, on the same hand, it's like but why is everyone burned out? Like this is a big problem.
Speaker 3:Do you want me to give my theory? Cause I have my theory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm listening yeah.
Speaker 3:By the way, this would be one of those things I'm not qualified to say, so I needed to get somebody like Emily on my show to say it.
Speaker 3:But now that I can, I can source her. So I think there's a lot of things going on in society right now that are are contributing to burnout. Now I think and we talked about it on that episode right there's different types of burnout. There's different types of people that are prone to burnout. I actually first started experiencing what I would call and you know we had that discussion too, if you, if you, if you got to it or listened to the whole thing where it was like here's the difference between depression and burnout. So I think I experienced probably burnout and mistakenly thought it was depression.
Speaker 3:Now, I do have, I do suffer with depression too, high functioning. So it's, it's always there and I'm just learning to live with it. But it kind of it gets to this thing where I feel like the expectations. So if you want to pull it back, I think it's capitalism, like I really, and I and I have been, you know, there's a scene in in Love is Blind where I'm like oh, we were talking about capitalism and that was like there were like two lines that people went crazy over, and in a positive way. Well, there's some that they went in the negative way too, but positive way, and I got so many questions, people asking me. I actually ended up on like a YouTube news show because they wanted to ask me what my politics were, you know, and and because you don't see reality TV people talking about that at all, and so I think it.
Speaker 3:I think the problem, if you pull it up, it's capitalism. But what's going on underneath that and this isn't a dig on capitalism? Like I'm not saying I'm a communist, like I'm not a communist, I'm a regulated capitalist or social Democrat, for those of you who freak out and think I'm like a Trump or whatever. But but my whole point, my whole theory, is like, with capitalism, you need to continue to produce, you need to continue to grow, you need to continue to do more with less, because that's where your, your profit comes from, right, that's where you cut your losses, and so what that does is that puts a lot of people under a lot of stress to make a lot of people not as many people, but several people really, really rich. Rich beyond the money that they need to survive. Rich beyond money they could spend if they bought everything in the world.
Speaker 2:And what that does that's right. Tell my family there's so much money in the world, why don't we have it?
Speaker 3:Right, seriously, you're right though.
Speaker 2:You're right though, because a few people have it and we're all the umbrella of the burnout to produce that.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah, and it's always do more with less, and I experienced that in my career too, but it has gotten progressively worse over the years, and I think part of that, too, is that we have a consumption economy, which requires people have money to survive. Right? I don't know if that's technically a consumption economy, but you can't get your basic human needs met, and we see it on all of our cities and all of our streets, right? You can't get your basic needs met, sometimes by working a full-time job at minimum wage. So we're just in this place where capitalism I call it end stage capitalism it's not even late stage anymore like this is the end. We are doing more than we've ever done, we are more productive as a society than we are ever done, but we're being asked to do more, we're being asked to give more, we're being asked to work longer hours, we're being asked to increase our production, and what it does is it creates this anxiety inside of us, and I, you know, I've had the cycle of anxiety like I used to be very anxious. I went through a lot of therapy, I learned how to manage it. Then love is blind happened and it just ended up coming back and I'm still trying to figure out how to like manage the new normal right. So I think it just puts a lot of unrealistic pressure on people combined and this is the big one combined with what the pressure we put on ourselves to be successful, because we literally have chemicals in our brain.
Speaker 3:One of them is dopamine, which you need to accomplish something to release dopamine. Now, the history of that is in our DNA, because the cavemen or the nomads used to consistently move and hunt and they'd hunt an animal for months and months and they'd eat seeds, but they would be moving, right, they would be hunting, they would be gathering, they were. So in our DNA is you have to accomplish things and complete things. You have to get that animal after six months. That's gonna feed you for the next six months, right? So it's like it's in our DNA that we are supposed to accomplish things and when the goalpost is always moving and the to-do list is never getting smaller and the accomplishments aren't getting acknowledged, or all of these pressures that we put on ourselves to accomplish that are in our DNA from the history of our entire species, like those things altogether are a cocktail of anxiety and burnout because we're not. And then you do pick up your phone and it's TikTok it's dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. So your base levels are raised.
Speaker 3:So there's so many things that are going on that, I think, contribute to the burnout society that we're in, and I think we're kind of at the precipice of a change. So I have been laid off in my career three times. I'm 38 years old. I've been laid off three times. So what I think about that is people are busting their butts. You don't get to be a VP or a CMO, interim whatever, if you're not busting your butt at 34. And I'm not saying it to toot my horn, I'm saying it just doesn't happen. If you're not working, all right, so, but what happens to people is that they just give their all to their job. It becomes such a part of their identity and then, when that goes away, or you're not getting fulfillment out of that, or it's working with people that aren't there or a toxic environment, like you're not getting any rewards, you're not getting any dopamine releases and you're not getting fulfillment, because what we also need is that fulfillment that I've done something and I just think it's this nasty cocktail that we're in and I, you know, being in tech, the layoffs and stuff have been ongoing now for two years and I feel like I'm seeing more and more people kind of change their relationship with work, which I think is gonna be a continued trend, and I love the way Emily talks about that both in her book and on the podcast, where people's relationship with their job is really what continues or can perpetuate burnout. So I'd like to see that change continue. I think it's important.
Speaker 3:I talk about it on my LinkedIn. If anyone wants to come follow me on LinkedIn. I speak about empathy in the workplace a lot. I share product marketing stuff too. I have a lot of knowledge on product marketing. I've built teams from nothing. I've built teams from you know, globally. So I just share stuff like that because I like to help people and you know like young product marketers are always like thank you so much for this and that.
Speaker 3:But I also talk a lot about leadership and what your job as a leader is and how you can recognize things like burnout or how you can recognize that someone's struggling, and how you can be an empathetic leader and how that's like the key to being a good leader, because productivity is tied to like doing specific tasks and that's not always the case and I'm guilty myself, like I need to be strategic. That's part of what my job is. But I sit there and I'm like I'm gonna brainstorm or I'm gonna outline this piece of content, that or this thought, this new thought that I had, and it's like I feel guilty for taking that time to be strategic, which is part of my job. So I think there's just this huge cocktail of all these things and I'll probably a bunch more that I don't even think about and it's just contributing to this burnout and, at the end of the day, like, what do you really have to show for it?
Speaker 2:And don't you feel too like, okay, you were just said, you've been laid off three times and you feel like you put in, like you said you have this relationship with your work where you make it a priority and you're giving it 120% and then they're like hey by Nick, we don't need you anymore.
Speaker 3:Like that feels like shit yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and a lot of people don't know this, but job loss is one of the top five most traumatic experience humans go through. It's right up there with like death of a loved one, divorce, loss of job I'm forgetting the other ones, I apologize, but it's right up there with those. That's a big deal and it does like you know, my last job I was promoted like six weeks before I was laid off. So it was like a Blindside, right, and they had like lured me there for four months. They lured me Like I was going to Soho house with the CEO and he was like showing me stuff that's coming trying to excite me. So it wasn't again.
Speaker 3:It's not like it's something where it's a completely different industry or it's certain. It's just like that, like you know, you wake up one day, your email shut off, you get emailed to your personal email and it's like hey, you no longer work here. We're going to send you a box. You can send your stuff back. You will get, you know, this ridiculously unacceptable severance package. And then, which I'm not allowed to talk about or I would love to, but it's like just complete life disruptor and they don't have and there's no loyalty to people. And then people feel so loyal that they sacrifice their life and their time with their family, and their time with their friends and their time to recharge whatever that is, and they just give it to a company that looks at them and the moment they can save a penny on them doesn't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's hard to swallow.
Speaker 3:It's just listen. I have been saying this for a long time to people that I've managed and people that I've mentored when they are not happy, they're not fulfilled, they don't see a path for themselves, they don't want to leave because, oh, I've been here for two years. It's like you're not happy, you're not learning and there's no growth for you. Like, what do you owe this place? You know what I mean. So, like you don't have to feel guilty, because the moment that a company can get rid of you and save money, they will and they'll pass it on to somebody else.
Speaker 2:Human nature is like too, like people get comfortable. People have five weeks of PTO, people like their commute, they like their coworkers, and so then they're like what if I have a terrible? What if my new boss is worse? What, I'm not gonna get any, I have to restart my PTO, I have to restart all this stuff. So there's that, too, like comfort right.
Speaker 3:Totally. And you know, one of the things that I learned in my therapeutic journey, which is ongoing every week, is that we get comfortable. I get comfortable in I don't really what's the word I used so I get comfortable in, like certain situations and a lot of people, I think, get comfortable because it becomes the norm. That's what I was gonna say. You get comfortable because it becomes the norm.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, if you're in a relationship with work where you're working 10 hours every day, you're stressed, you wake up not wanting to work. You think about work on Sundays. You get the Sunday scaries, like all of these things, like they are so normal to people and guilty, like I'm not talking down, I need to. You get it gets normalized. So then you're sitting there and you're like, well, this is normal. And then immediately, because we're human beings and we've all experienced worse in most cases, your mind goes to it's gonna be worse. It never goes to. It could be better. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. The famous saying right. Well, what I say to that is you don't know until you go there and you might find a forest. So take a leap of faith. Nothing is forever and always keep your options open, because big companies and small companies are keeping their options open on you too.
Speaker 2:Amen. So another thing that I love about it's funny, because I'll listen to your podcast and you'll say things.
Speaker 3:Oh, and thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:by the way, oh my gosh, yes, I appreciate that and you say things and I just am like, yes, me too, yes me too. Oh, yes, me too. And one of the things that you always say about and I actually, the love is line. Season six reunion just was out yesterday, so that's a hot topic, and I saw that you went on.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's why I get off of Instagram for like the month that the shows are out, because it's so hard to just and it's funny because, like I mute everyone from the show except like two people that I have personal relationships with, so it's like I don't even seek it out, but like you can't open it without something. It's insane. This is the most watched season yet.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we're gonna talk about that. But you say things like you went on oh, this is sorry, I mean I lose see if this is that thing where I lose my train of thought all the time too but you went on TikTok and you were like these are what I want you to remember right now, like the reunion is coming out. These people are people. This is their real life. They're dealing with all of these things and if you don't have anything nice to say, zip it, Because-.
Speaker 3:Learned it in preschool kids.
Speaker 2:Right, and why do I always think that too? Like, and you said this. You said what do these people have going on that they have that much energy and time to be mad about it? Then go find these people on the internet and then write nasty messages.
Speaker 3:Who they don't know.
Speaker 2:Who they don't even know yeah, they don't even know them. Like, how unhappy are you? And it is crazy. I mean I hate to say the word crazy and insane, but it is crazy and insane that people have that much negative energy and animosity towards somebody they think they know and they know nothing about.
Speaker 3:I yes, this is becoming another hill that I am going to be taking on to die on. One of the things I think people ask me all the time what's your biggest takeaway from the show? Which my biggest takeaway from the show? I have two. Now I have two. I used to have one First one. I probably never should have been on it.
Speaker 2:I was gonna ask you if you would do it again.
Speaker 3:Well, we'll get to that.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:I should have. I'm saying I should have never been on it because, like I'm not, I'm not built for people only caring about me and who I'm married to or dating Cause the idea is right. Like I was always for an idea was for characters, for telling a story, and what I think I realized for real now that I had done a lot of work on myself, I had narrowed down my friend group, I learned boundaries and how to use them with family and friends to make sure that I could be peaceful, because I again, once you find inner peace, the rest of your days in the world and all this stuff, like you interact with it in a totally different way, in a positive way, and you get energy from it. And so I had six, I have six friends and these six friends and I, like we don't all think the same all the time, but like we can hang out, we, you know, we have things to talk about.
Speaker 3:It never gets boring. We could hang out all day. It doesn't get boring. We take trips. It doesn't get boring, all this stuff. And it took a long time until I was like probably 32 to 30, 32 to be able to be like this is my people and you know, you see the memes and you hear all that Like you'll shed friends as you get older, and the real one, but like what I realized, that happened?
Speaker 2:I don't think too. I'm going to interrupt you, nick when you're younger, it's quantity over quality of people, and then, when you get older, it's quality over quantity. I'd rather have three best friends than 20 friends, so, but anyway 110%.
Speaker 3:That's. I agree with you completely and I, and that's why it was such an eye opener when I got exposed to the world that was outside of the world that I had made for my piece, and see all these people on the internet, all the and you know, I used to at first I laughed because I woke up one day and I went to sleep the night before and I woke up the next day and they announced the cast of the season and people were going nuts because it had been so long because of COVID and they wanted season two and they were sick because season one and you know, over and over which I think that's another fun topic about that release of this but I woke up and it was like 7,000 followers. I had 240 something overnight, literally 7,000 followers. And then it was like going all the way down liking stuff from three years ago and like commenting on and I'm just like this is nuts.
Speaker 3:And then what really got me was people were going through our Venmo transactions that were public and not just like us. They were going through people's Venmo's, every cast member, trying to figure out who Venmo'd who, and there was speculation. Oh, you know, I'll never forget the one that was like Danielle Venmo'd her friend here for drinks. Could it be because they were drinking away a broken heart? I'm like what the fuck? Like who's writing this? Who has time to do this? And like if I had time to do that, that means I'm not doing something more important like that I could be doing. And so, like it opened up this world.
Speaker 3:And then when I and I guess, like it's like one of the reality TV, it's one of those things where, like y'all, we all have an opinion about it, we all kind of have an idea of what we think is going on. And then there's like the reality of it and the people that some of the people that watch it are so invested in it which I get it's they do right, wrong or indifferent, I'm probably gonna say wrong. They tell great stories Okay, they tell compelling, dramatic stories, but they're not real. And the fact that people think they're real leads people to go online and go on Reddit and go on social media and comment on what if Reddit said I like never, I went on.
Speaker 3:you know what my first Reddit experience was during the 2016 election and I was like what the fuck is this, like this is worse than Twitter. I'm out of here and I haven't been back since.
Speaker 2:I'm like what kind of fucking people are on this shit, Like what.
Speaker 3:I know and you know okay, so you know it's funny and I hope if my one friend listens to this she'll forgive me. We've been friends for like 20 years. But she was just telling me all about Reddit on Saturday, this last Saturday, and I'm like I'm shocked and a little disappointed that you're one of those people that are on Reddit so much. She was like I felt myself getting a little judgy, I felt myself getting a little like why are you on Reddit so much?
Speaker 3:But I get but like I think it gives. So my whole thing is like this whole world of people who are struggling, of other, and it's very relatable, right, like I find so many more people I can relate to and talk to, like you. But I think it's this thing where it's like people are so desperate for connection, desperate to heal even if they don't know they've got to heal from something so damaged and so traumatized from one thing or another that you see something on TV that you perceive as real, which that's a natural thing, right, you see, seeing is believing it's. You see something you wanna believe it to be true. You can even know consciously. So consciously you can watch Love is Blind or any reality show and know that this is edited, know there's context missing, know you don't know these people, but you're seeing it and so you're perceiving it as real, even if you kinda know maybe it's not. And then when you have that piece in you that relates to it in a positive or negative way, or you're someone that wants to watch someone fail.
Speaker 3:I have so many. I probably have like 50% hate followers and the funny thing is I don't think these people know that I see their messages because I just leave them as unread, you know, and I don't see all of them, there's no way. But, like, there's people that have been trolling me for two years and they just say the dumbest stuff, and I'm like, why are you replying? Why do you follow me, like, why are you applying to this? And then, on top, like, and I think it's a mix of jealousy, it's a mix of trauma, and I say jealous, you know, jealous, we all get jealous right, yeah, we all do absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's a fair feeling. But like that's why I'm encouraging, like check in with yourself, because I know when I get upset with something and I don't know why, I have to figure out why. Because is it a me thing? Because it probably is, it usually is.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah right.
Speaker 3:You can only control how you react to something. Boom, yes, not something that's happening to you, and so I just would really want people and I have, unfortunately anyone can figure it out. I know what happened at the reunion, I know a lot of the real story and it is not being told, and I think it's incredibly unfortunate that these people are now basically a movie, a dramatized, manufactured storyline, and that is their persona in the public, and they cannot say anything against it without legal ramifications in the forms of millions of dollars. So imagine yourself in a scenario for a minute and you could say, oh well, he said it or oh, she did it. It's like context is king and the context you do not have it, no matter how much you think you have it, because you still don't know. At the very least, you could watch every piece of footage for an entire series, all hours and hours and hours, but if you didn't experience through that person's mind, through that person's heart, through that person's ambitious and DNA, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. And so I want people to look inside, I want people to find the watch it as entertainment, right.
Speaker 3:But if you find yourself wanting to lash out at someone, ask yourself what's going on that's causing you to do that. I've been doing that. I've had a like. Today was a rough day. It's been a rough two weeks. Today.
Speaker 3:I was on a walk earlier and I'm like okay, I'm like, why am I feeling like this? And you know what it was? It's like because I feel like I'm not doing good enough. And why do I feel like I'm not doing good enough? Okay, well, because you know I did this and it didn't go over as well as it thought. Okay, well, why is that upsetting? Well, because you know I'm worried that I'm going to fail and that I did all this stuff and I don't really know what I'm doing. And it's imposter syndrome and it's so. I just like why? Like that's the key is ask yourself why. And then, when you get the answer to that, why ask yourself why again? And then, when you get the answer to that, why ask yourself why again? And I think if people could just do that before.
Speaker 3:They are cruel on the internet, because these are real people. You don't see everything, but we see a lot of it and they're going through something you can't imagine if you haven't lived it and you can think I would be fine. I said that. I said I'm built for this because I don't care what people think of me and by and large, I don't but there's moments where something stings, where I and again, what do I do? I look at myself. Why does that hurt me? This person doesn't know me, person doesn't have context, and I think you know that kind of thing. It helps, but people don't have that skill set or that tool. They haven't learned that or they haven't had the exposure to ask themselves why.
Speaker 3:Right, and so it just leads to cruelty and the fact that we have people getting death threats. I shared a post his name is Therapy Jeff on social media and I shared it yesterday because he posted about and he's hit a million followers on. I started following him. I think he was like I don't want to misspeak, he was not 500,000 followers. I know that I found him. I've been following him for well over a year, year and a half now and he is getting death threats and I'm like so now who is threatening a therapist on Instagram who is sharing relatable, helpful considerations about mental health to try and help people or destigmatize therapy? But like, who are these people?
Speaker 1:People who are mentally ill.
Speaker 2:So I want to circle back a little bit, because you were saying, like you know, you have 50% hate followers and I was rewatching.
Speaker 3:I think that's actually.
Speaker 2:I think I'm exaggerating on that, I know I know, I know that's a lot, because I think I just watched the reunion honestly tonight. The season two of you, because I just kind of wanted to recap, it's been a minute.
Speaker 3:And there's a lot to talk about. We're going to unpack a lot.
Speaker 2:But I just feel like your, your edit, as they, as they call it, because you only see a portion of it. I think that I think that you were portrayed as a nice guy. On the other hand, you know he was definitely the villain and you know, I'm sure that that's a whole podcast episode that I don't want to speak about, don't want to give that guy any time.
Speaker 3:Well, here, here I actually I don't mean to interrupt you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, go for it.
Speaker 3:I do want to give him some time, because he and I never got along from pretty much the beginning. We had a lot of I. Just I thought so I would find myself saying pulling shake aside and be like hey man, why'd you say that? If you asked yourself why, you thought it's okay to ask because he, he, one day he made Danielle cry by asking her if she could get on his shoulders, and so after I talked to her and she told me about that and I was like, okay, I'm going to go talk to this guy and like why do you think you're asking that? And he really didn't know. And and he did reflect on it, though I will say he did.
Speaker 3:And so that was our relationship. Was me trying to be like, dude, this is you're upsetting people? Like can you? So we had hung out a few times in a large group he's not lying when he has said that but we got to the reunion and it was fire and you didn't get to see most of it actually, and my whole, my, my whole calmness is that I'm not going to get in the mud with some. I can, and it can get really ugly because I'm very good at it, and so I grew up watching WWE. I know how to talk shit.
Speaker 2:I also wanted to tell you that I grew up with WWF and me and my cousin, we were always the Bushwhackers, and then my other cousin was Mr Perfect and then we would all wrestle.
Speaker 3:So I that was a relatable thing for me, mr Perfect, mr Perfect Okay.
Speaker 2:Anyway, you're talking about. You're talking about shake.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so he and I never got along. Really, we barely hung out when I lost my job and I was struggling getting a new one partially lost it because of the show, partially trouble getting a new one because of the show. Like I would do very well and then it would get to the. You know, we are small because I worked in tech startups. We're too small to risk it, like if there's a headline or another headline, and so it took, you know, me a while to kind of like craft. Well, how am I going to handle this? Right Cause it's a new territory. It's not like there's any training or anything on how to do that. So be like well, how do you talk to a customer and translate a conversation where they want to talk to you about this show back to business, and I'm like, huh, well, okay, I should probably know how to do that. You know what I mean. So it was this whole new, new process, but I had done a 30 and this is we had. I could do a whole episode talking about this too. But, like, holy cow is big reality TV, powerful Media. Like you think the media I mean I don't trust the media and they're like in the. To me, they are very much just in the pockets of whatever side they're supporting.
Speaker 3:And I did this 30 minute interview about unionization, reality TV, worker rights, ending exploitation, telling pieces of my story, and at one point I was discussing the reality reckoning, which is what Bethany Frankel has labeled this, this entire movement, and rightfully so. And the one of the last things I said was because I was unemployed for like 10 months. The last thing I said was they're making millions, if not billions, of dollars on the backs of the other seasons of this show. I made $1,000 a week and they're about to release another season. They're doing two a year now and I could lose my house, right, and that was and I'm not, because I'm not getting residuals and that's. That was the. It was that quick. That became the headline and the only thing people talked about and that was done by design, because that's sensational, that's clickbait and so that you know my, my whole news feed and everything about me was then Nick going to be homeless from love is money, blames Netflix. And then the funny thing is and I wish this went viral, but the good stuff never does someone clipped together all of the interviews that I had done with people who were citing that headline, where I'm, where I'm saying like I'm not saying I'm blaming Netflix or I'm not saying I'm blaming the show.
Speaker 3:The show it's, it's the whole experience, it's the being in the public eye, it's having the public figure, it's going on the show, it's how you're perceived on the show. It's how people don't take. There's a stigma, people don't take reality TV people as serious. So there's that and it's like you know, is a company going to have a struggle or someone going to have a struggle with someone who is on a reality TV show coming in as a VP to you know, do blah, blah, blah, like these are real things that happen. And so that headline went crazy.
Speaker 3:I wish that video went viral, because they intercut all the people who read the headline and didn't get the context and they just intercut it with that and me. All the times I was like I'm not blaming Netflix, I'm not, and so I wish that it was on Facebook. So that's probably why it didn't go viral, but anyway. So it was like that became the headline and then all of a sudden and it made me sick to my stomach because it's like this was, this was a tongue in cheek to prove a point. Right, this was hyperbole to prove a point. And it wasn't like I was at risk. I had been through my savings. I was like I'm going to cash out my 401k, you know you do everything right and I had savings, but it doesn't go.
Speaker 2:Like oh, so far yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:When you've got a mortgage and everything, and so, anyway, all of this happened and this to me, like I think all the stuff I said about shake challenges I do, I have changed my opinion of him. I think he means well and he doesn't. He he doesn't always say it the right way, but he means well and I got a text from him. And, by the way, I didn't get a text from anybody else. In fact, other people started talking about it on their podcast. When they have their phone number and could actually talk to me about it. All I have to do is shoot a text. They don't even have to like invite me on one of their shows, just ask me hey, what's going on with this? And then to speculate like they knew anything about my personal situation.
Speaker 3:So shake texts me out of nowhere. We hadn't talked in over a year, or about a year probably, and he at all. He said, hey, I just heard about your job and I'm really sorry that you're going through that. Essentially, not verbatim You're a good guy, you're or you're a smart guy. Like I know, you'll bounce back. I'm sorry that you're going through this. He's the only one.
Speaker 2:So surprising yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know it was nice to hear from him. And then Chris Harrison, of all people and that was and that, so to me it was like it kind of changed a little bit of my perspective on him and I appreciated that and I've shared that a few times now. But like he didn't have to do that, nobody else did.
Speaker 2:And people can change and grow Right.
Speaker 3:I mean there's, I think he is, I think he is. I'm just watching that reunion, though I was like oh my God, that was a show.
Speaker 2:So so, speaking of reunions, I know you said you didn't watch it, but you know what happens. But I feel like, after like kind of like doing some digging on you and what's going on and whatever everyone kind of looks like on the reunion, what the fuck did I do? What the fuck did I just go through and what the fuck is going to happen to me? What's going to get shot at me? What am I going to have to deal with? Jimmy looked like he was a nervous wreck, like just going to get hell. So that is terrible for a human to go through. It looks terrifying when you're looking at it from a different lens.
Speaker 3:Well, and here's the, here's the peak behind the curtain on. That is and I don't know exactly how it worked, but I know they filmed the reunion two, two and a half weeks ago now. So what happens is the show is airing. You don't see it ahead of time. You watch it with the rest of the world, so you don't know what your edit is.
Speaker 3:And I remember and it was like you know it's one of my fondest memories with Danielle related to the show is she was very nervous and anxious and you know, we, we couldn't, you, we couldn't leave the house for like two weeks after the cast was announced, or three weeks or whatever. Like we, you can't be seen in public, you can't. You know, you got to be very it's all contracts, all this stuff. So we were kind of separated or or together but like in the house, and so she was scared to watch it and I said, well, I'm not, let's not even take off work, let's just treat this like a normal day, we'll get. It was a Friday, was it a Friday? Yeah, and she comes. I heard her get up early and she went and then she came back in and she just woke me up super excited and she was like, oh my God, like everybody's loving us, like it's so cute and all this stuff from the first episode, right.
Speaker 3:And so I called off work, we stayed home and started watching it. And then we stopped watching it and I kept watching it. And the whole thing is that you're watching your storyline that you were a participant in but have no say in. You're watching that play out in real time with the rest of the world, and not only at times. You feel like you're being gaslit where. You're like that didn't happen. I didn't say that to that person. Is that really what happened? And you start to question your own memory and then the whole world.
Speaker 2:Can you even remember every single thing you did and said during that time? That's a year ago. You know how can you Right?
Speaker 3:You can't, you can't, and so that's the whole thing. And it's like I just I can't imagine. I mean I can't imagine because I lived it, but like you're doing this in real time. And then you, we went to the reunion. It was on a Saturday. The weddings came out, it might have been that day, I can't remember. We flew out on a Friday, flew home on a Sunday. I can't remember the exact timing, but the wedding episode, the last episode, hadn't aired yet. Everyone got encrypted iPads to watch it on, so that we would come into the reunion. Hot.
Speaker 2:If you just watched your wedding.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think and yeah, and I look back on that and at the time I kind of like poked at him with shakes specifically because I knew the stuff that he had kind of said and I just, and he was thinking he's having this big character arc and all this stuff, and then it didn't work out that way. And I feel for him in retrospect because he came in not knowing that he was going to be quote the villain, you know, and as hard as that. You know a lot of. He said a lot of the things and I heard him say a lot of the things. And again, I don't think he's coming from a bad place. I think he's doing the best that he can with the information he's got and the scenario he's got. But, like in retrospect, I'm like I kind of feel bad because he didn't know he was going to be the villain until the day before the reunion.
Speaker 2:And then everyone Like you said. You don't know what your edit is right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so you want. This is all happening in real time. And here's the thing like he can say what he says, you can say what you say, I say what I say, but we're all looking at the world through our own world point of view, and so that's the thing is like he's not necessarily knowing some of the things that he says or does are upsetting people, and so for him, I can't believe. I'm saying this. I would never have thought I'd say like I empathize with this scenario. I, you know, wish he would have done differently.
Speaker 3:But we all get hindsight as 2020, but they don't know what they're going into. They know they can't tell the truth if it's against the truth, and then the viewers can't separate what they're seeing on TV and recognize it's for entertainment. It's a, it's a unscripted show, but there's storylines that they're manufacturing to tell and just watch it as entertainment. Be kind to these people and treat them as as being grateful that they let you into a piece of their life, and then you probably saw some stuff that isn't a part of their life. So that's where I just and that's why I have a petition with move onorg. It's move onorg.
Speaker 3:Slash reality, thank you, and I just want, with our teams and 30, when I checked earlier today, 31,000 people so far just a disclaimer reminding people at the beginning of these episodes that these are heavily edited for entertainment purposes only, and I don't think that's too much to ask. We get based on a true story. When you're watching a dramatized fiction version of a story, we get based on actual events. We get documentaries that have disclaimers. Why can't we just throw a disclaimer up there and just give people that gentle reminder when they're watching a show? This is edited.
Speaker 2:This is, this is not, and for mental health, like, like you said, we're all human, we all have feelings. Like think about how you would feel if you will receive the that negative message that you're sending to somebody else.
Speaker 3:Right, right, and I just I've never been that. I mean I'll say stuff to politicians, but like I'm not, I never attack them. I'm not like you're a piece of shit, You're a terrible person. I'm like why do you have this ridiculous position Like that?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. That's fair. That's fair and that's ruining our country and our state and our different whatever. So that's that's.
Speaker 3:But I've never felt like being mean to someone in the comments or sending a mean DM. No.
Speaker 2:I even think about that like surveys. Like if you get you went to Target, take this survey. Most people are only going to fill out the survey if they had a negative experience, that they want to get out there and and then they want to get something for free. I will never fill out a survey unless I only have positive things to say, because what's the? Point of sending negative things out there, Like isn't there enough of that in the world Me too.
Speaker 3:We have enough, Karens. I do that with Uber drivers too, where I'm like you know what. This was not a pleasant drive. Instead of giving you a bad rating, I'm just not going to rate you at all.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly Same.
Speaker 3:And I still tip because I feel for them. But it's like you know why is someone who's you know having a bad day driving an Uber or waiting a table or doing something for you that you could do yourself Like just again, it's the same thing, right? If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. It applies there too. You know, you don't? You don't know what other people are going through, and just show them some grace.
Speaker 2:We went to New Orleans a few years ago and it was my birthday and so we went on this like river cruise or whatever, and there was this one. There were super short staff, I think it was, I think it was Well, it was after COVID, but the world was still like kind of slowly, you know, getting back. And there was this one server. They were super short staff, but she was so nice and you could tell she was just busy and overwhelmed and I just she just made my experience so great, right, and she didn't. And my my friend was like she's doing her job, like why are you so happy? And I'm like because there's a lot of people that don't care and don't do a good job, especially when they're short staffed. They're just like this is what you get. I don't care.
Speaker 3:And so I Are tired or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like I can't believe you did that. Like who does that? I'm like, I do, I do. I love that. I love that, you know. I hope that made her feel good. I hope so, cause she made me feel good you know, 20 bucks big deal.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:Do you think some people so like watching the reunion? Some people are really. Do you feel like some people are now that it's been six seasons of love and love is blind? Do you think people seek that limelight?
Speaker 3:A hundred percent. It started with our season. There were people that were kind of like, oh, you got to pick someone so you can get engaged and go yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, further you go yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think you know I've heard and again I'll just be clear I can't watch it. It's two every six months.
Speaker 3:It's like a month or two of reminders of, like my marriage not working, the whole experience, how it's impacted me you know my economic struggles, my personal struggles, like all that's. It's just a constant reminder. So you've got like two seasons a year now. It's like two months in the beginning of the year and two months in the end of the year and that's like one third of my year is like depressed. So it's so, it's. It's hard for me to watch it, but people tell me about it.
Speaker 3:I talk to cast members from, I think, every season and what I think is what I think is really sad is I question now well, what is the right reason? Cause I used to say I went on the show for all the right reasons. I wasn't having luck dating. It addressed a lot of my concerns from there and I didn't really care if I found the love of my life and got married or I went home after the first day. It was just something that I was doing right. It was something I was trying, it was changing things up. So when I went there and I kind of was just myself the whole time and really connected with Danielle, obviously we went through and we got married and you know, I never had a question, like I never questioned myself or the values that I have, and I just acted as if I was myself. I didn't have an agenda other than to see if this was the person I was going to get married to.
Speaker 3:So I don't know who to blame for this. I don't know if there is blame, but my mind has changed and I'm like well, I think there's an argument to say what the right reason is, because they've created an environment where it used to be a love experiment, or at least that's how they would sell it. It's a psychologically based love experience. Then how do people go through? I don't even know how many interviews, psych evaluations, psych tests, all this stuff, so that you know them speaking with producers before filming. You know them inside and out, you know their triggers, you know their relationship history, you know all of it. And it's because I feel like they are telling stories and escalating every season and it's so famous. The show is so famous, it's attracting those people and they don't care about the relationships to begin with, which was a huge revelation to me that I really struggled with, because I thought they cared about my marriage, because it was a success story, and they didn't give a fuck.
Speaker 3:They didn't give a fuck any time that we asked for help individually, or didn't give a fuck. They would have loved for us to show up to that reunion and just been like hating each other. It would just been like or not a divorce, because you're legally bound to stay married, but like we broke up three months ago and they would have loved it, they didn't care, they just want the drama. So when you have a system that is getting the most views ever by having probably the most dramatic season, yet you have all these escalations and storylines, you're attracting people that want clout. You're attracting the drama. You're escalating every season.
Speaker 3:It's just what's the purpose? Well, the reality is is the purpose is to make money, and drama is money because people can watch a reality show that's more dramatic than their life and they're trying to escape their life and realize, well, I might be struggling, but I'm not that struggling. Or I might have a bad relationship, but I don't have that bad relationship. And it's just this recipe for people clout chasing, not wanting to get married. And then this production company is like, oh, more people watch it, the more dramatic and more it escalates. And then you have viewers that are like I thought I was watching this to see if people can fall in love without seeing each other. And then the viewers guess who they blame. They blame the clout chasers and they say you didn't go on this show for the right reasons.
Speaker 3:Well, what's the right reason? Because the right reason is to make money and everybody falling in love in this organic, non-exploitative, wonderful pod love is blind experience. That I think it would be great. That's what I loved about season one. But I think they think they can do better with the drama. So they then turn their hate and their frustration to the clout chasers or the people that want their 15 minutes of fame, and not at the production company, who is not. If they want to sell this as an experiment, they have a due diligence to try and actually get people on there that are looking for love. It's just like I can't wrap my head around it and it kind of drives me crazy. It lives went free in my head, but it's.
Speaker 2:It is funny how they can call out people out and be like oh, you're here for the wrong reasons, you didn't come for love, you came for just whatever. But, like you said, no one's saying well, you're just here to make money.
Speaker 3:Because you probably can't say that I could get on the reunion now. My reunion was this weekend.
Speaker 2:Hey, you know they had people from past seasons on the reunion. Why weren't you there?
Speaker 3:Oh, I must have missed my invite.
Speaker 2:I'm not making fun of you, nick, I'm just no, no, no, no, no, no, you know what's funny is. Because you were saying, if I could get on a reunion, so that might be why they wouldn't invite you back.
Speaker 3:Well, they never should have let me on the show, as I would say. That's like several people have been like, oh you're like this, like lefty politic organizer dude who works on political. Like they never should have let you on the show because I have all the resources. But anyway, what I think is so interesting is that I was invited last year to the live reunion, which was a shit show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sure was yeah they could.
Speaker 3:Netflix wasn't able to handle it, which they had never had a show that had that many people trying to watch it. So how could they have?
Speaker 2:known what that would have been like Right, and that's probably a success for them at the end of the day Exactly.
Speaker 3:And so I remember I got an invite, maybe like two, three days before the live reunion. I got an invite like hey, do you want to come out to LA? And my first thought was, well, this is really late notice. And then I'm like how many other people they invite that said no, but then no, the funny thing is I was like they would regret if I went there because our I was.
Speaker 3:This was the week or week, week or two before you can was announced on a press release and the big expose of business insider that kind of started. The whole thing came out and I was like I remember sitting down and I'm like this is going to be the last one of these I get and I have to make peace with the fact that, like, my opportunities are gone and I am now going to be a pariah and I it was like this whole process of being like this is the last one, I'm not doing it and I'm never. I'm going to have a lot of enemies. I'll never be on another show, which I was fine with. I'll never. I'll never get this invite again. I'll never.
Speaker 3:You know, and I had, I had some really cool things that I got to do because of the people that I met and the opportunities that were afforded, and I am grateful for those. But I just realized it was like this. I'm like I am now fighting against the machine and my life's about to get a whole lot different, so that. So they did invite me to that one, but I but I had fun in the chat because I was taught. I man like Shane, and I went into the love is blind Instagram chat and we were just bouncing off each other and it was like people were loving it.
Speaker 2:I also felt bad for Shane and the reunion or guy oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:You know he's still going through it. It's not his fault, it's. It's really.
Speaker 2:Like you said, your people and like think about, like in the nicest way, like season two, like that was a long time ago. People are on to season seven. You know it's supposed to be here in Minneapolis and people are out here in Minneapolis like trying to find where they're filming stuff as chaos, like calm down people these are people at this show, calm down, and yeah, and so season two, like you guys are still dealing with that and that was, you know, a couple of years ago and it's just people get stuck.
Speaker 3:You know I've talked to because I know I get stuck and every time I think I'm like everyone does I get stuck Right and again it's like I think I'm getting out of, I'm getting oh, here's another season and it's not. And then because of the work I'm doing with you can and organizing and stuff, you know I'm the first person people DM when their show comes out and they feel, you know, misrepresented or it's not in it. The people that are vocal are the people that were villainized, right, and they'll be vocal publicly more likely. But the people most, the majority, probably 90% of the people that we talked to at you can foundation, they, they were just like. This was not a good experience. I had 30 seconds of airtime but I did not appreciate how I was treated or how I was recorded or how you know all of this stuff or what they did to my castmate and all these things and it's just such a. It's such a like gladiator games, hunger games, mentality that's going on WWE.
Speaker 3:Really Well.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding, because that was your, that was your starting point. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, the people. This is what I I know a little bit. When I was going to be a teacher, I was going to be a history teacher because I took a lot of history classes for fun in college as electives. And there there was a time when I was like, oh, this is actually the combination of capitalism collapsing and and reality TV being the way that we entertain ourselves by escaping our shitty lives that we're all burnt out from and that's to distract us from the empire collapsing and capitalism not working. And then I was like, oh my God, this is what happened to the Roman Empire. So the Roman Empire was spreading and it's I'm not trying to turn this political, but there's so many similarities but, like the Roman Empire was collapsing, what they did to distract the poor people from noticing is they started the gladiator games and circuses.
Speaker 3:And they started these things because then they could turn their fellow poor people against each other. I'm going to stick this guy and this guy and they're going to fight to the death and we're all going to watch and pick someone to cheer for based on who they tell us is the good guy, the bad guy. And guess what happened then Got a little boring. Let's do a man versus a tiger, the escalation and what happened People were rooting for the tiger over the human, and so that, and like laughing at clowns, like we're laughing at clowns, we're not laughing with us, they're not making us laugh, we're laughing at them, right, and so it's just. These things are like repeating themselves in the form of reality TV, where you're being fed a story while there's so many really important things going on in the world that are going to change the trajectory of humans, right, and those things people don't want to deal with because their everyday life is so uncomfortable and they're so burnt out and they're struggling to like, get by the last thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the last thing. So you turn on reality TV to see who's got it worse than you, but then they've also got fame.
Speaker 2:So you're kind of like you know you're jealous and now you're writing mean things to them on the internet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so it's really unfortunate what I think is happening and I think reality TV is contributing to it. But I also don't want to villainize reality TV in general. Like, I think there's something to it, I think it's a fine form of entertainment. I just don't think we need to like destroy people's lives over it.
Speaker 2:It's crazy Sign that petition Tell everyone where they can sign that petition.
Speaker 3:Moveonorg. Slash reality. Please, please, please, go sign that petition. If you think we should put a disclaimer in front of every reality TV episode, starting with Netflix, and remind people that this is for entertainment only and things can be edited out of order, they can be people could be misrepresented. I basically wrote that by taking the lines out of the contract where they say we can defame you, we can misrepresent you, you cannot go against the edit. I'm like okay, if you want to say I can't go against the edit, remind people of the things that you're allowed to do to people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's only fair.
Speaker 3:I think it's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So moveonorg, slash reality. Please sign.
Speaker 2:Would you do it again, knowing what you know now that you didn't know then?
Speaker 3:So it's such a nuanced question because I wouldn't give up. I feel like if I say I wouldn't do it again, that that means and maybe it doesn't mean a different path lead us in different ways.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, and like I love Daniel, I couldn't imagine doing that with anybody else and that's the path that I took and that if I say I wish I didn't do it, that means that I didn't meet her and I'm not there, like I don't think I'll ever be there. And when I look back and I think about where my life was separate from that, like completely separate from my relationship, where my life was before versus where it is now and that's across the board, that's mentally, that's the activism, the UCAN foundation, that's the whole job situation, the way that I just feel, like I said every six months when a new season comes out, and how it's really hard for me to kind of get out of this haze. When I think about those things in a vacuum, separate of the relationship, I'm very I struggle with like why I would do it, because I didn't. When I was growing up, nowhere in my story was there I'm going to organize and unionize reality cast members so that they can get basic worker rights. I wasn't in my story until a year ago and so when I think about that, I'm like I didn't want to do this and somebody had to do it, somebody had to do it, and this is the same thing about me, like I don't like to be the center of attention. I don't.
Speaker 3:I'd love an idea to be the center of attention, but I ended up leading group projects all the time because no one else would take the lead, and so I feel like this is another one of those situations where somebody should say something.
Speaker 3:If no one else is going to do it, then I will do it, and I can't wait for the moment which I believe is coming soon, where I can step back and be like this isn't me, this isn't a handful of people, here's everyone, and we're all going to tell you our story now, because we legally can, I can fade off into the sunset and go back to my normal life and try and put some of it together.
Speaker 3:And it's really hard because the time I spend on you can, or the time I spend kind of reliving it all and being stuck in it and being reminded of how hard I tried at my marriage and how much love I still have for her and how I feel like maybe things could have been different if things were different which we all think that but maybe if we didn't switch producers halfway through the whole thing and we wouldn't have gone down the path we did and build the unhealthy habits that we had. And I think it's just such a nuanced question and it's hard for me to like. In case you can't tell, I'm still working it out and I'm doing some of that right now with you in real time. It's OK. Yeah, it's a tough one to work out. It is a tough one to work out because I would much rather be doing something else if this didn't need to be done, based on the path that I'm on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and think about like going forward in the future. How many people, even if it's just one, that you'll help?
Speaker 3:I know, and that's you know. It's every time I'm like what the fuck am I doing this for? And I get. So I get like that I've never said this before either. So you're getting a couple first timers.
Speaker 3:When I look at how many people have made a lot of money, have a nice little cush life coming out of reality TV, and that kind of becomes my view of the world. And after a certain period of time I'm always like why am I doing this? Like they don't care, they're making a half a million dollars, they're making a million dollars. They have this and this and this and this and they went and monetized it where I just kind of wanted to go be a normal person, and all of that stuff. And then every time I'm like why am I doing this? Maybe I need to stop doing this for my own good and just support it financially or something else.
Speaker 3:And then someone comes and really needs help and we're able to help them, or someone from this season really needs someone to talk to, who's been through it. And then I can just talk to them. And that goes for other shows, that goes for other seasons, and I say it's worth it because I know that I often feel very alone in this, and alone in this in how it's impacted me and no one understands and my family doesn't talk about it anymore, my friends don't talk about it anymore, and it's a blessing and a curse, but it's still such a piece of me and it's still a piece that's hurting and I don't ever feel like anyone can understand and I feel very alone and isolated.
Speaker 2:That's why what you're- doing for these people because they're in the same situation, right. And at least they have somebody now that they can reach out to, or a community of a very few people who have been through the exact experience.
Speaker 3:You're exactly right, you said it better, you said it better. And so then I get that little fulfillment and I'm like I know I'm doing the right thing, I'm going to be those, do the right thing.
Speaker 2:Nick, are you dating anyone now?
Speaker 3:No, you know, I just talked about it with my therapy. I don't even know how. How do I date? Do I go on a hinge? Do I go on bumble?
Speaker 2:Do people recognize you out and about in Chicago?
Speaker 3:Now, this is literally like my. That's this next question.
Speaker 2:My therapist asked me it's because I feel like it is a thing, because you gotta don't kind of weed out those types of people.
Speaker 3:No offense, sometimes no totally, totally, and so they do, but it's, I'm like it's really let down and it's like, well, I haven't left the house in two months, so there's, that's probably why. It's because I go to the grocery store, I go to like I started boxing, which has been what a yeah, what a fun place to let the anger out.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I do, I do a lot of times. Now people don't really remember what they remember you from. When the show comes out. You can't go anywhere without 10 people, which is you know what. Like that never bothered me. It really makes people's day and I still like I was at a trade show a couple of weeks ago for work and like a guy was like freaking out. He's like you were my favorite on the show and my girlfriends can't be so mad. She wasn't here and like all that stuff. So you know those things and you just take a picture with some of you talking for 30 seconds. You make their day Like it's good. But dating I'm like how do I? Where do I? People slide into DMs. But it's like are you?
Speaker 2:are you a bear's fan? I?
Speaker 3:am Well.
Speaker 2:I have a friend who's bear's fan If it wasn't a bull's hat.
Speaker 3:It would have been a. It would have been a bear's hat.
Speaker 2:Did you hear me?
Speaker 3:You have a friend who's a bear's fan. Yeah, is that what you said who's single? Only it was that simple, I know.
Speaker 2:I just had to. I just had to give you a hard time.
Speaker 3:Well, it's funny I joke about that sometimes when people ask me if I'm dating and like I just wish someone would be, like hey, I've got someone, I think you should meet. You know what I mean? It's like it's like, oh, okay. But when you ask them like why? And they're like well, you're both single.
Speaker 3:Cool, I'm seeing a lot of people are single. I don't know, like, what are they like to do, what are they like to talk about, like what are their hobbies? And I did have one time I had one time a co-worker set me up with someone she knew and it was like really tangible reasons why she thought it would be good for us. So it's just a timing thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, that happens.
Speaker 3:But otherwise, yeah, no, no, I just don't even know how. It's weird. That's another thing. Absolutely, if you were to make an opportunity, you would think. You would think you would think that it would be easier, almost right, and maybe it would be if I wasn't like wanting to be, like married with a family, you know what I mean. Like that's what I want, and if I really wanted to just go out and and you want to do it with the right person you know, especially, we're not getting any younger, so you know, there's that too.
Speaker 3:I'm trying, though.
Speaker 2:let me tell you the older you get, the more people have more baggage too. I mean whether it's a more emotional or kids or exes, or financial. There's just a million things out there.
Speaker 3:So that's better. You are absolutely right, and I think people too. It kind of comes down to the you get burned so many times and then you're not even putting yourself out there. Putting yourself in there I think that's part of me too is like like I don't want to go find someone else who's burnt out on dating and just doesn't want to make the investment. And then it's like do I want to make the investment? Who knows? So no, I'm not dating anyone.
Speaker 2:But next, time we'll maybe have a different answer. Is there anything else that you want to share?
Speaker 3:No, I just want to thank you for having me on and reaching out and thank you for the work that you do and also, you know, I just hope that any of your viewers can. If you're going to watch reality TV, like I don't begrudge you, you know it's like a carbon I'm starting to think about, like a carbon emissions thing, Like I don't agree 100% with this but, like you know, you can do carbon offset right. Like every time, I know I have a bank card where, every time I use this debit card, they plant a tree. Okay.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Right, it's like offsetting. So if you want to enjoy reality TV, please do Go sign the petition. Share to others content that's out there about people telling the truth about what their experience was. You know, just do a little bit to try and make it better, or just don't be mean to people. Even that's going to make someone's life better. I promise people, if you check in with yourself, you'll find out. It's about you and then you can work on it and you can become a better version of yourself. And it isn't easy. It's much easier to send that nasty DM or that mean comment and to let it out. I get it, but that is hurting someone and you don't want to hurt other people because then someone's going to hurt you.
Speaker 2:And if that makes you feel better about yourself, then that's not okay either.
Speaker 3:So I would check in with that too.
Speaker 2:Check in with that. Find a therapist. We can all benefit from therapy.
Speaker 3:Completely agree.
Speaker 2:Nick, where can we find you?
Speaker 3:You can find me all over the internet, apparently now Instagram's, n Thompson 513. I'm not I'm comfortable saying this now I'm not always active on Instagram. I do it kind of on my time. If I have something I want to say or share, I encourage you to follow me. I do post my podcast clips, which you can find me on YouTube at Eyes Wide Open Content. I have two podcasts. One is Eyes Wide Open, my main show, where I interview guests of all walks of life. We talk about mental health, cultural issues, holistic wellness, free speech and more. I, just, like I said at the beginning, I train a thought at that given time I try to find a guest that can talk to me about it. And then, additionally, I have a mental health headlines hot take podcast that I do with a gentleman called Todd Rennbaum, the host of Bunny Hugs and Mental Health, and that's a Thursday show and we dissect each bring and dissect the headline of something going on in the mental health community. So that's all on my YouTube. You can go on TikTok, nick Thompson 513.
Speaker 1:And I post a little bit of exclusive stuff there.
Speaker 3:I post my dog there more. Yeah, he is, he's right here now.
Speaker 2:He's so cute.
Speaker 3:Oh, he just rolled over to get his belly rubbed, so he can hear you.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm cute, rub my tummy yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I would encourage you can listen to the podcast anywhere too. You can listen to it on Spotify, apple, wherever you want. Oh, and ucanfoundationorg I'm sorry, u-c-a-n. Foundationorg. That's my nonprofit that I co-founded with Jeremy Hartwell and Dr Isabel Morley. We are working for changing the industry in reality TV with advocacy. We also connect mental health support with reality cast members and legal support with reality cast members.
Speaker 2:Nick, thank you so much for being on my podcast. It was a blessing to have you and chat with you, and your timing was great. I appreciate that so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:I hope for the best for you in the future.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I appreciate it, you too, of course, all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So me and Nick are besties, now Besties, and everything that he told me about Love Is Blind was so insightful and I have a totally different outlook of it now. I'm still going to watch it in the future, but my outlook has changed. So I'm thankful for the perspective that he gave and I hope that all of you kind of took something home from that to make your. It is entertainment, but it is also people's lives, so something to consider something to think about. You know All right. Driver's Ed question.
Speaker 1:Is that what?
Speaker 2:you're ready for Mm-hmm? Okay, I'm ready. Are you ready? How ready are you?
Speaker 1:Seven out of ten.
Speaker 2:Seven out of ten. All right, here it is. If you see a steady yellow light as you approach an intersection, you must A increase your speed, b proceed with caution, c continue at the same speed or D stop if possible. Stop if possible.
Speaker 1:Okay, then proceed with caution.
Speaker 2:Proceed with caution. It's like a yield. What is caution? Yellow?
Speaker 1:yield. What does caution mean? Like slow down.
Speaker 2:It means like slow down and kind of check out the situation.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm going to slow down. I would have checked that.
Speaker 2:Well, you need to know caution, and yield means Slow down.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yellow yield. Okay, mm-hmm, that's what you need to remember, all right, what does yellow mean Yield, and what does yield mean Slow?
Speaker 1:down Good job.
Speaker 2:That retainment is top notch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:All right, do you have a word you'd rather for me? Yeah, I get it, I get it, I get it, I get it, I get it Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:Are you actually ready? I get $1 million tomorrow, yep, or get $5,000 per week for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do $5,000 per week for the rest of my life. That's way more. I mean depends on how long I live, I guess. Yeah, I know, yeah, but I'm assuming that I'm going to live a lot longer and I am terrible at math, so I can't do that equation, but I feel like I could live comfortably making $20,000 a month for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a lot of money. I mean, that's more money than $20,000 a month is wild yeah. Unless you're a content creator or a surgeon or something like that.
Speaker 1:So you're making like almost $200,000. You're almost making $200,000 a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy to think, Because a lot of people do make, I mean not a lot, wait, no, you're making more than $200,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't. Is it $2 million? No, I think it's.
Speaker 3:Wait, no, it's my math skills are so poor it's $300,000 or something okay.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm gonna get my calculator out here, because now I wanna know. So what did we say? $20,000? Yeah, one, two, three times 12.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why is this so difficult? $240,000 a year, oh, which isn't I mean. Surgeons and lawyers probably make more than that, for sure they do I mean plus your job that you have right now? I mean, I don't know if I would do my same job. I think I'd just quit if I could just make this money doing nothing.
Speaker 1:I guess yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't know what the criteria is, I mean, they're getting that every week.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you just spend it wisely.
Speaker 2:I think I could live a comfortable life on $240 a year. I can tell you I definitely don't make that now, so that would be a huge improvement.
Speaker 1:I guess.
Speaker 2:All right, I have a funny joke for you and I thought it would be really fitting with some of the things that we talked about with Nick today. All, right. Are you ready?
Speaker 1:Not really, let's get into it.
Speaker 2:How does a rock pee, I don't know. Dwayne's is Johnson. What Get it?
Speaker 1:Dwayne Johnson is the rock, oh he is a rock.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, do you smell la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la. What the rock is cooking? You're goofy. Thank you for listening to another episode of On our. Best Behavior.
Speaker 1:On our Best Behavior. We'll be back next week. I'm, meg and Henry with Kelly. You're at the beginning, we're at the end of rock. Oh Shoot, I don't know, I was just kidding All right, be cool, stay in school. I will stay in school. I'm really good at it. Yeah, woo, woo, woo yeah.